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[John66]

Yes, of course you can go operational when connected. In fact, you have to do it, because if you forget to go operational before disconnecting, your bike will be a brick. BTDTNT

And being operational when connected, you will see the analog values of the throttle and the regen lever, and you will also see the FS1 switch go to active when you hit the throttle. But the bike will not run, the rear wheel will not spin. And the forward or reverse switch will not show up in the I/O monitor.

[rgutt]

Yes, of course you can go operational when connected. In fact, you have to do it, because if you forget to go operational before disconnecting, your bike will be a brick. BTDTNT

And being operational when connected, you will see the analog values of the throttle and the regen lever, and you will also see the FS1 switch go to active when you hit the throttle. But the bike will not run, the rear wheel will not spin. And the forward or reverse switch will not show up in the I/O monitor.

If your kickstand is up and kill switch set to run, yes you will, and yes, the bike will. I have made many a run with my computer plugged into the bike to log data off it. If you don't see the forward or reverse switch input go active when turning the throttle, it's probably because you don't understand the interaction between the motor controller and rest of the bike, and you've run your test in a configuration in which even with the computer disconnected, the bike wouldn't have moved. The MBB takes the inputs from the kickstand, kill switch, and several other sources some of which are actually transmitted by the motor controller itself and some that are completely invisible to you unless you can decode the CANbus and sends the signal to the motor controller to set the forward switch high.

Now, before you go saying, "But I set it to operational, turned the throttle with the kickstand up, and still nothing happened," if you were working on the system in pre-op then set it to operational, the system was already faulted, and the main contactor was open. Hopefully, you've noticed that setting the controller to pre-op results in the contactor's immediately opening. The controller stops sending its TPDOs, and the MBB & BMS throw fits. You can see it in the logs if you're so inclined. And the contactor doesn't close when you set the controller back to operational. You have to power cycle the bike.

[John66]

Okay, rgutt,
I will try it out. It may well be that I did not power cycle the bike after setting it operational, to be honest, I cannot remember. I will do a show and tell session afterwards.
Anyway, the wiring was correct from the very beginning, it was only the negative throttle end value that was missing. Do we agree that is is a weird setting as all other throttle 2 values have to be positive, or am I just missing the logic behind it?

Thanks for your input.

[rgutt]

You should probably familiarize yourself with the Sevcon manual freely available online. I believe the last revision before they were bought by Borg Warner was 3.4, and in that revision, you might want to refer to page 6-18 where this exact setup is described. I'll agree it's counterintuitive, but they give explicit instructions.

[John66]

Dear all,
here comes an update:
We successfully installed both the reverse gear and the regen lever on another 2017 DSR with only minor problems. Details that might be of interest:

Regen lever

• Monitor the no-load voltage on the regen lever and make sure the footbrake start voltage value is above it. Won't work otherwise for obvious reasons. I just copied the 0.5 V from my own bike, but this sensor was at 0.57 V.
  
  
• Regen lever has had its first tour test last sunday. Works really well. Feathering starts at 150 RPM and ends together with footbrake braking exit speed at 20 RPM which means regen until just before standstill.
  
  
• Blocking the rear tire will happen with torque at 50% in the traction profiles with full pull on the lever, especially in wet conditions and/or on loose terrain. In this case, regen is going to zero quickly and does not start again when the wheel is spinning again. You will have to release the lever completely and pull it again if you want regen to continue.
  
  
• It might be a good idea to connect the regen lever brake swith to the other brake switches to have the brake light active when you are "regenning". Using the front brake lightly instead every time you apply the regen lever also works and should definitely be done, as noone expects a bike to decelerate that much without brake lights on.
  
  
• Don't forget to exchange the Footbrake swith in RDPO1 by a dummy boolean, as otherwise you will experience full regen torque when applying either of the brakes and you do not want this. 
  
  

Reverse gear

• You may want to adjust the throttle 2 end value voltage to prevent full torque in reverse mode. This value is what the Sevcon wants to see to apply full throttle, so to reduce torque you have to set this value beyond the actual voltage output at full throttle. Does not make too much sense to do it, because the Sevcon is in torque mode, not in speed mode, so you will have virtually no torque in reverse if you increase the value too much. 20V is too much, we checked that. We have now set it to 10V, with usefulness still to prove.
  
  
• Reverse speed limitations seem to be ignored by the Sevcon. Most likely not because it runs in torque mode, as forward speed limitations can be applied (and are applied in eco mode). Any hints welcome.
  
  
• The Sevcon has an inching mode for low speeds (both forward and reverse), but we were not able to apply it. We tried switching it together with the forward/reverse switch and seperately.

Detailed documentation is in progress.
Thanks again to all helping commentators.

John

[John66]

@rgutt and DerKrawallkeks:

We tried what you suggested and you are right: Forward and Reverse Switches (and all others too) can be seen with the bike connected to IXANN/DVT. Most likely, I had forgotten to turn the bike off and on again after applying changes and setting it back to operational.

John

[rgutt]

I'm not sure what you did or didn't do regarding the reverse speed limit, but the Sevcon does not ignore it. It works just fine, just like I'm sure you've noticed it has no problem applying the variable forward limit in the custom drive model. But it is still a control loop that is probably not tuned for a low target speed with high available torque. In fact, all of the low-speed gains are completely zeroed out. That's under 0x4651.

[Brit64]

Dear all,
I have read what I think are all the threads dealing with a reverse gear option for Gen2 models, in my case a 2017 DSR. I did what the threads suggested, but with no success. What I did is:
- I installed a DPDT switch (used as a SPDT) to reroute the connection coming from MBB19 and going to Sevcon18 from 18 to 31.
- I added Digital input 4 in DVT (Sevcon PIN 31) as reverse switch, since the standard Reverse PIN 30 on the Sevcon is assigned to the idle switch.
- I  set 0x2122 0 (Reverse Switch) to "active".

Result: Doesn't work. 
Forward works when switch is in forward position.
When in neutral or in reverse position, nothing happens.

BrianTRice wrote in 2020 he managed to get it to work but did not explain how.
What did I miss? Would it make sense to switch Pin31 to B- instead of MBB19?

Any help is highly appreciated.

Rehards
John

Shame Zero has the lack of customer care and grasp of how to live long and prosper as a corporation.  They care nothing about making their products user friendly.  Hiding aspects of product capabilities is the sign of a failing corporate construct if ever I saw one!  That my new DSR has abilities I cannot use is BS on stale toast!  The insane erogonomics, or total lack thereof, makes Zero products a scam in too many aspects.

[rgutt]

Dear all,
I have read what I think are all the threads dealing with a reverse gear option for Gen2 models, in my case a 2017 DSR. I did what the threads suggested, but with no success. What I did is:
- I installed a DPDT switch (used as a SPDT) to reroute the connection coming from MBB19 and going to Sevcon18 from 18 to 31.
- I added Digital input 4 in DVT (Sevcon PIN 31) as reverse switch, since the standard Reverse PIN 30 on the Sevcon is assigned to the idle switch.
- I  set 0x2122 0 (Reverse Switch) to "active".

Result: Doesn't work. 
Forward works when switch is in forward position.
When in neutral or in reverse position, nothing happens.

BrianTRice wrote in 2020 he managed to get it to work but did not explain how.
What did I miss? Would it make sense to switch Pin31 to B- instead of MBB19?

Any help is highly appreciated.

Rehards
John

Shame Zero has the lack of customer care and grasp of how to live long and prosper as a corporation.  They care nothing about making their products user friendly.  Hiding aspects of product capabilities is the sign of a failing corporate construct if ever I saw one!  That my new DSR has abilities I cannot use is BS on stale toast!  The insane erogonomics, or total lack thereof, makes Zero products a scam in too many aspects.

Zero may lack good customer service anymore, but this post has nothing to do with that. Zero has no obligation to tell you anything about the Sevon (now BorgWarner) controller that drives the motor or to provide any guidance to the effect of reprogramming it. That would be paramount to an automobile manufacturer's disseminating the details of their ECU programming. In this case though, the motor controller isn't even Zero's. They buy it and interface their hardware with it to sell you a bike. If you want to drop the coin and study BorgWarner's -- note, NOT Zero's -- documentation to learn how to program the controller, go for it. But Zero is under absolutely no obligation to do that for you.

[Specter]

Many Manu's keep the info to themselves out of liability concerns as well.
The same people who'd whine and cry that so and so wont tell me how to program the ABS system, as an example,  would be the first ones with the lawyer on speed dial, when their reprogramming failed, trying to sue the manufacturer for giving them false information or something like that.

They also have to comply with endless laws, rules, and regulations around the world as well.  Just because something has a capability, does not mean that capability should be used, or is safe to use, or  even legal to use.

Sometimes things are very difficult to work on, and it's  best left to someone who KNOWs what they are doing, and not just thinks they know.  You brick a 1500 dollar control board and the tinkering gets very expensive very fast.  Or, your playing, disables some safety feature, you get in a wreck, and sure enough, here come the lawyer, THEIR PART hurt me, it wasn't MY fault!!!

There are also such things as trade secrets, which they are under zero obligation to share with others.  They paid the money to develop their software, make it work with the bike so on and so forth, so why should they just give that investment away for free?

You will find that with pretty much any company, they are not going to give you their 'know how' for free, especially with the markets as competitive as they are, they are NOT going to throw away millions of R and D so their competition can get a free ride.

Aaron