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[DonTom]

See here.

[flynnstig82r]

Bennett’s did a 1,500 mile review of the Z7 Hybrid, and the results were honestly pretty shocking: https://www.bennetts.co.uk/bikesocial/reviews/bikes/long-term-test-bikes/kawasaki-long-term-test-bikes/z7-hybrid-2024-review

I was already critical of the Kawasaki hybrid bikes based on info from the initial announcements and ride tests from clueless journalists, but this review really puts the nail in the coffin. I can’t believe that Team Green would release a product that fails on every single level like this:

• The first thing that stands out to me is the gas mileage, which is somehow worse than the gas-only Z500 with the same ICE engine. Unbelievable! That was supposed to be the selling point, guys!
• If you’re going to use an automatic gearbox, make the gear changes quick and smooth. This one is clunky and selects too high of a gear (but somehow still gets worse MPG than the non-hybrid).
• Throttle has to be fully closed to downshift. I mean really, what the hell? My 17 year old FJR’s auto-clutch can downshift with open throttle, and that’s Stone Age tech compared to something like Honda’s DCT.
• Gear changes in EV mode, seriously? Stop trying to be a Brammo Empulse! That bike was cool.
• When Kawi said it pulled like a 1,000cc off the line with the stupid e-boost button engaged, I was almost ready to believe them. But the proof is in the pudding, and the pudding is 0-60 in 4.3s. My FZ6R could do that, and it wasn’t exactly a performance bike. What a joke.
• Lengthening a bike’s wheelbase to shove in an electric powertrain is the dumbest way to make room, and they clearly didn’t think through the implications on handling (or aesthetics).
• I won’t even mention the false neutrals and the resulting recall, because recalls can happen with any bike.

I believe hybrid bikes have a lot of potential, which is why I’m so incensed by this half-assed insult to motorized transport. This was an unforced error. There was no market pressure to release a hybrid as a commercial product. They could have shown off a concept bike to hone their skills and gauge interest, but instead they demonstrated that they don’t know their asses from a hole in the ground in the emerging electric space. They’ve also potentially poisoned the well for hybrids and electrics in general, because other OEMs will see the poor sales, and we all might be robbed of the chance to buy a properly-executed hybrid. To paraphrase comedian Mike Birbiglia, what you should have done was nothing.

[Richard230]

Maybe the Kawasaki engineers were pressured by upper management to produce a hybrid motorcycle and they designed it so that it wouldn't sell in the hopes of not having to do that project again. 

[flynnstig82r]

Maybe so. It reminds me of how my dad inadvertently got out of laundry duty early in his first marriage. He mixed the white shirts with the red shirts and everything came out pink.

[princec]

The whole project was a facepalm from beginning to end. Hybrid technology is already dead in the water. It's going to be banned in the EU from 2035 anyway - a mere 10 years away - and this has been known for at least 5 years, which would make attempting to develop it for the extremely niche motorcycle market an insane waste of money.

Battery tech has won, and it's here to stay, and yet they waste their time on this pointless crap that solves nothing (and fails at the one single thing it could have solved which would have been fuel economy*). Instead the manufacturers wring their hands and make whiny noises about the technology not being "there" yet, while we waft around on Zeros, Energicas, and LiveWires wondering wtf they're talking about.

Cas

* Ever wondered why turbocharging never caught on in motorcycles? Because to make motorcycles insanely fast you just make the engine a bit bigger or rev a bit harder. The last 20 years of motorcycle development hasn't made them any faster in the real world.

[flynnstig82r]

I don’t know if I’d go that far. Battery density is still quite low, and the current state of charging is not to anyone’s satisfaction. The truth is that you still can’t buy a no-compromises e-moto at any price, much less one that’s price-competitive with gas bikes. The Experia is a great bike and represents the closest thing, IMO, but when you start comparing it against a similarly-priced Ducati Multistrada, you have to really desire electric to choose the Energica. A hybrid could have the range and refueling of gas with the instant torque and quiet operation of electric, and with the heaviest and most expensive component (the battery) shrunk to 1/4 its size on a pure EM. The gas motor could effectively be a generator that also helps out at high speeds when the electric gets above its efficient zone for its winding. I don’t see why 100 MPG wouldn’t be achievable when a NC750X gets 65-80 MPG without any hybrid tech.

[princec]

...and still push the planet a few hours closer to unhabitable. Oil is the death of mankind. We are fucked if we keep using it. Hybrid is a clever way to keep using it, at almost exactly the same rate, while pretending we aren't.

My Zero is perfect for 95% of the mileage I do in a year. The other 5% is me waiting at a 22kW AC charger (charging at just 11kW), and to be honest, that's a few times a year. I know it's a bit inconvenient for those two days a year I have to charge while I'm about, but you know what, that's the only actual technical problem with the bike. It could probably get 20kW of AC charging into it with currently available tech, and that'd bring charging time down to actually less time than I want to rest for. I wish the press and chattering classes would stop blathering on about how the "range and infrastructure aren't there". The range is there nearly any time I need it. The infrastructure is there. The weight is almost exactly the same. The price sucks by a factor of 2, but what price clean air and divesting ourselves from Big Oil?

The thing about hybrids is that once you're out of the zone where the electric motor does its work - under 30mph - you're just left with a petrol engine doing normal petrol engine things. It won't be any more efficient at 70mph. An NC750X would still do 65mpg on average, unless it spent its entire time in the city centre.

Cas