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Author Topic: Better DCFC coming to Energica?  (Read 2660 times)

DonTom

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Better DCFC coming to Energica?
« on: October 05, 2023, 08:37:28 PM »

And it needs it. I could not find even one CCS DCFC station in Yuba, City, CA that would work with my Energica Experia out of all of them which were tried in that town. Same with Dave who I was riding with, on his Rebelle.  So then we go down to Plumas Lake and have the same issue.  See our 20, Aug check-ins.


We ended up charging with a J-plug here. That got us to a CCS station in Sacramento that worked. We got back home after midnight.


Anyway, I received this email today which says these issues will be improved, which includes our slow charging (8 KW) when Tesla's Magic Dock is used.



"New Firmware 43 Release enhances Energica fast charging compatibility in U.S.
October 5, 2023"

-Don-  Reno, NV
« Last Edit: October 05, 2023, 11:01:09 PM by DonTom »
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2016 Kawasaki Versys 650 LT
2017 Blk/Gold HD Road Glide Ultra
2017 Org Zero DS ZF 6.5/(now is 7.2)
2017 Red Zero SR ZF13 w/ Pwr Tank
2020 Energica EVA SS9
2023 Energica Experia LE
2023 Zero DSR/X

Pard

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Re: Better DCFC coming to Energica?
« Reply #1 on: October 05, 2023, 08:53:24 PM »

What is required to charge the Energica at a Tesla charging dock?

Plug adapter?

Account setup?

Sorry if this was posted elsewhere already.  Thanks for the information.
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DonTom

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Re: Better DCFC coming to Energica?
« Reply #2 on: October 05, 2023, 09:09:51 PM »

What is required to charge the Energica at a Tesla charging dock?

Plug adapter?

Account setup?

Sorry if this was posted elsewhere already.  Thanks for the information.
There are very few locations (so far) where Tesla has the Magic Dock. Only two in the entire state of CA. I used the one in Placerville, CA. The adapter is part of the Tesla Supercharger, so you need no other adapters to use it.


But you may want to get on this waiting list, but I think it is uncertain now if it will ever be available as it will not be needed if Tesla adds more Magic Docks. And they have been. Look about halfway down the page where it says "Tesla to CCS 1 Adapter".


What you will need is the Tesla App (you can download from the Play store) and then you have to find "Charge your non-Tesla" and set up an account. If you already own a Tesla (as I do) you're ready to go without setting up the account.


It is a little tricky to find "charge your non-Tesla" in the app. But if you get the app and cannot find it, I can explain how to get to it. They do NOT make it obvious in the app.


-Don-  Reno, NV
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1971 BMW R75/5
1984 Yamaha Venture
2002 Suzuki DR200SE
2013 Triumph Trophy SE
2016 Kawasaki Versys 650 LT
2017 Blk/Gold HD Road Glide Ultra
2017 Org Zero DS ZF 6.5/(now is 7.2)
2017 Red Zero SR ZF13 w/ Pwr Tank
2020 Energica EVA SS9
2023 Energica Experia LE
2023 Zero DSR/X

wadejesu

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Re: Better DCFC coming to Energica?
« Reply #3 on: October 05, 2023, 10:36:59 PM »

The Only way to get FW43 is go to a dealer?
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joesedroid

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Re: Better DCFC coming to Energica?
« Reply #4 on: October 05, 2023, 10:37:17 PM »

When I got my 2023 ss9 in December of 2022 I was unable to charge 9 out of 10 tries anywhere. Now I am able to 100% of the time at the ones I use EVGO, Chargepoint and EA. There is still one in Conifer Co. that didnt work 3 weeks ago but I could not be happier.

I also, yesterday, picked up a 2020 Zero sr/s premium with 900mi on it.  It was a fraction of new cost and could not pass it up. Did a 76 mile ride home from the dealer and loved it. Not that it will replace my ss9 but its an enjoyable bike.
Joe
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wadejesu

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DonTom

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Re: Better DCFC coming to Energica?
« Reply #6 on: October 05, 2023, 11:03:04 PM »

The Only way to get FW43 is go to a dealer?
I assume so. I don't think Energicas have OTA updates.


-Don-  Reno, NV
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1971 BMW R75/5
1984 Yamaha Venture
2002 Suzuki DR200SE
2013 Triumph Trophy SE
2016 Kawasaki Versys 650 LT
2017 Blk/Gold HD Road Glide Ultra
2017 Org Zero DS ZF 6.5/(now is 7.2)
2017 Red Zero SR ZF13 w/ Pwr Tank
2020 Energica EVA SS9
2023 Energica Experia LE
2023 Zero DSR/X

Specter

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Re: Better DCFC coming to Energica?
« Reply #7 on: October 06, 2023, 07:08:26 AM »

The dealer is the only one who can update your Energica.
it should be free.
If something tanks in the process, they'll need to 'redo' it essentially, and it takes a special reader etc etc to do.
If THEY F your bike up, it's on them to get it unbricked.
If YOU F it up,all bets are off.

On the tesla's.  You will need an adapter to go from a tesla charging cable to a CCS1 port.
The adapters are already available, just check E bay.  They DO  work for the destination chargers.  I have one
The main reason they don't work for the super chargers is because you as a non tesla person have no way to turn the thing on, (I believe it talks using near field RFID) directly to your car when you pull up, or bluetooth or some sort of comms.

I am thinking that when you get the dongle to convert the tesla cord to a ccs1 cord to plug into your bike for charging,  your phone will be needed to give the signal to the charger to turn it on, since there is nothing radiating on your bike that can do that.  Unless energica turns their bluetooth back on, in the bike like the older ones, if it even still exists!

Either way, having more places to charge is always a good thing.
Many times now I been planning a trip of a few hundred miles or so and so many of the chargers are either tesla super chargers - currently unusable.   or J plugs, - takes HOURS to charge, so not really a good match.  It will be really good if they can open these S chargers up for us.

on that though, is 75 Amps the max the bike will take still for charging?  It'd be great if we could push 100 amp, and maybe get a charge in ... in around half an hour.   that's .. in theory 20 to 80 percent charge, in say half an hour.  Each persons use model is going to be different.  Maybe Energica can do something where like a microwave oven, it starts out at a very high power and trickles down as heat builds.  If it's cool start it at 100 amps and bring it down  as temps rise.  If it's already running warn because it's august in florida, ok fine, then start it at it's 75 or 60 amps or whatever.  But having the ability to charge faster would be an awesome boost for the Energica Brand name.  when you look at the amps this bike can pull off the battery continuous, supposedly, when you are driving in 'spirited mode'  that extra 25 should be .. not really an issue.

There is a lot of great potential here on BOTH sides of this coin,  the charger people's side AND Energica's side as well for vast improvements.  I sure hope someone will look into it seriously.

I can offer guidance / suggestions / consulting,  reach out if interested.  No charge, I want to see this brand succeed so I have service on my bike for years to come and I don't end up owning a dinosaur.

Aaron
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SBK74

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Re: Better DCFC coming to Energica?
« Reply #8 on: October 06, 2023, 01:48:16 PM »

Thanks for uploading the communication @DonTom. Energica in the USA are very communicative. Very good that Energica updated DCFC connectivity and speed. @Specter: I still would prefer sustained 75A charging instead of more current. Please note that heat development due to internal resistance in the battery is a square of the current (P=I^2 x R).

I do find that Energica use big words regarding their sophistication and technology. I actually find the words somewhat uncomfortable, given the things in sophistication that they cannot get right, like properly managing a service symbol indication, correct temperature indication, applying (enough) grease in headstock bearings and so on.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2023, 02:18:46 PM by SBK74 »
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Specter

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Re: Better DCFC coming to Energica?
« Reply #9 on: October 06, 2023, 08:35:36 PM »

 Big words are uncomfortable?  How about small words and big pictures, will that help you understand better?  Im sure their graphic designers would love that as well!!

If they could push it to 100 Amps then it would also handle 75 amps by the same virtue.

TBH the only time I have ever really seen it taper down the charge current significantly is towards the top end of the charge cycle.  Id presume to get a better reading of the actual cell voltage w/o the charging bias on them, and also to stretch the charge out a little bit, to give the batteries a few more minutes to balance better.

Maybe Morgan or Desmoni can help here, since they would have first hand knowledge, at what temperature does the charge actually start to significantly taper down?  It's probably in the yellow but how far into the yellow?  By significantly I mean, if you are charging at 75 amps,  reducing to 73 amps is really not significant,  reducing to 70 or less, would be.

How hard DOES charging heat the batteries up anyways.  By their claims, and specs, it seems running at just 30 KW would pull 100 amps, which is a walk in the park really, when you consider the bike is rated at what 100 plus KW continuous?  Granted running at 130 mph is going to get a bit of wind cooling on the  battery, but thats not that much in reality.  They really are pretty inefficient in their cooling design when you look at, being air cooled on an essentially finless exterior case.

Aaron
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smithy

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Re: Better DCFC coming to Energica?
« Reply #10 on: October 07, 2023, 02:54:41 AM »

The dealer is the only one who can update your Energica.
it should be free.
If something tanks in the process, they'll need to 'redo' it essentially, and it takes a special reader etc etc to do.
If THEY F your bike up, it's on them to get it unbricked.
If YOU F it up,all bets are off. Aaron

This is fine if you live near a dealer/service centre. We have an Aussie owner of an SS9 and he lives ~3500km away from the nearest dealer...what happens there if these "updates" are a requirement or become mandatory to keep warranty valid.??

Smithy.
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MVetter

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Re: Better DCFC coming to Energica?
« Reply #11 on: October 07, 2023, 07:37:27 AM »

Hey guys just wanted to let y'all know what the actual improvements were to Firmware version 43 in terms of DC Fast Charging.

- First off, yes, better compatibility with the Tesla SuperChargers. For now that really only applies to Magic Dock ones like the units found in Scotts Valley. They will correctly give full power to the bikes now.

- The bike now has a longer 'timeout' while doing the DCFC handshake. This will generally help new owners. What I mean by timeout and handshake is you now have a much longer period to start the charge process after plugging in. As many of you are probably aware the DC stations all say something like, "please plug in first" but we know that if we do that the bike will turn itself off before the charge session starts properly. This leads to confusion and frustration. I'm at the point where, just out of habit, I always start the charge session first and then plug in as the very last thing I do. To those of us already doing this there'll be no change. But to new owners this should greatly alleviate stress.

- And for Experia owners, they know how cluttered the new dash/screen is so there's a new layout called "CLEAN" which just offers a cleaner, more stripped down simple layout at a glance while you use your bike. Should be less confusing.
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DonTom

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Re: Better DCFC coming to Energica?
« Reply #12 on: October 07, 2023, 09:14:35 AM »

Any chance of less bugs in the new FW?


-Don-  Auburn, CA
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1971 BMW R75/5
1984 Yamaha Venture
2002 Suzuki DR200SE
2013 Triumph Trophy SE
2016 Kawasaki Versys 650 LT
2017 Blk/Gold HD Road Glide Ultra
2017 Org Zero DS ZF 6.5/(now is 7.2)
2017 Red Zero SR ZF13 w/ Pwr Tank
2020 Energica EVA SS9
2023 Energica Experia LE
2023 Zero DSR/X

MVetter

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Re: Better DCFC coming to Energica?
« Reply #13 on: October 07, 2023, 09:24:06 AM »

Of course there's a chance.
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DonTom

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Re: Better DCFC coming to Energica?
« Reply #14 on: October 07, 2023, 10:39:38 AM »

Of course there's a chance.
Yeah, and in either direction. But it's worth a try.


I wonder if the new FW is already available at the USA Energica dealers. Perhaps I will go ask sometime this week.


-Don-  Auburn, CA
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1971 BMW R75/5
1984 Yamaha Venture
2002 Suzuki DR200SE
2013 Triumph Trophy SE
2016 Kawasaki Versys 650 LT
2017 Blk/Gold HD Road Glide Ultra
2017 Org Zero DS ZF 6.5/(now is 7.2)
2017 Red Zero SR ZF13 w/ Pwr Tank
2020 Energica EVA SS9
2023 Energica Experia LE
2023 Zero DSR/X
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