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Author Topic: Balancing good practices  (Read 3438 times)

Specter

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Re: Balancing good practices
« Reply #30 on: September 22, 2023, 06:41:31 AM »

So how many unplug/plug cycles should it take to get the balance complete and 100% SOC, I think I'm up to 6 times in 2 days still not there yet.

Honestly you should be there already.  I can not imagine a battery that far out of whack, unless there is a cell / cluster issue.
Have you reached out to the dealer yet?  I would just to see what they say, if they address it or give you the standard, relax tootsie, it's perfectly normal routine.

Are you driving it between cycles and if so how much? 
No something seems odd there.  Maybe do a total system reset in case a base number got wonked somewhere or something.  ::shrug::

Aaron
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Valen

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Re: Balancing good practices
« Reply #31 on: September 22, 2023, 01:16:10 PM »

So how many unplug/plug cycles should it take to get the balance complete and 100% SOC, I think I'm up to 6 times in 2 days still not there yet.

My battery was really unbalanced and reached 100% just this morning after like 15 cycles of plugging/unplugging. So it's tedious but at the end it is working as they said

I drove small distances and without putting too much pressure on the throttle
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Specter

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Re: Balancing good practices
« Reply #32 on: September 22, 2023, 07:43:41 PM »

Did you get the bike this way, or did something happen while you had it to make it this way?
I can't see why a dealer would NOT prep the bike so it's at 100 percent, and everything is 'perfect' when he takes your money and hands it over to you.  I can see maybe 4 or 5 churns on a brand new battery, though if they were prudent when the put the thing together it'd have been balanced THEN, but 15? jeez.

Well, at least you finally got it there and lets hope you don't have any further issues with it and it lasts a good long time.

Aaron
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Valen

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Re: Balancing good practices
« Reply #33 on: September 22, 2023, 09:36:32 PM »

My bike had a connector issue inside the battery that prevented a full 100% charge. It took us like 1 year to find this issue so basically the bike wasn't balanced for at least a year.

To give some credit to my dealer, this issue is very rare and couldn't be found easily. There's no special error code and the main symptom was that the bike shut off. It only happened 2 times in one year. First time, we thought it was a firmware issue and i thought it was resolved. When i was "balancing" my battery i wasn't to worried to see 98% the next morning and thought i had lost 2% overnight so i thought i was doing the right thing

The second time the bike shut off, i couldn't even charge DC so that why we did some freeze frame and send them to the factory. Then Energica Italy took control of the bike and runs a bunch of test, we made some also and they found that my issue was hardware related and that i was a very rare connecting issue inside the battery. That explain why they flew 3 techs from italy to fix it instead of changing the battery pack. I can't blame my dealer, he's great and this issue is so specific that he couldn't find it "alone"

About the dealers and balancing, most of them aren't aware that the bike shut down after 1h even if it's unbalanced. As us, they thought they were doing the right thing just by putting it on charge without limit every now and then.
For exemple, when the guys from energica explained this to my dealer, he put the demo Ribelle to the test and had to do 4 cycles do reach 100%  ;D

Again, for me the fact that the bike shut off after 1h even if balancing isn't done is a bad design choice and the fact that even the dealers aren't aware of it isn't really clever.

However, despite this, i'm still amazed by the level of customer service from my dealer and Energica. They put a lot of effort to find the issue, once they found out what it was, they flew the week after from italy to fix it so ok there's sometimes some issues or mistake but they care of them.




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PWM

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Re: Balancing good practices
« Reply #34 on: September 23, 2023, 05:22:18 AM »

Good report on your experiences...so the 100% displayed equates to balance not capacity...most excellent discovery.

Do you suppose a bike that sits more than is ridden is more suseptable to requiring iterative balance sessions to keep pack at 100%?

Me now thinks yes.

The time-out when balancing is a safeguard that factors thermal build-up to load when cells are discharged, gonna monitor for this and perhaps pause 45-minutes between balance restarts to allow for heat dissipation.

Do you suppose the drain to select cells that support keep-alive voltage sourced from 315mA fuse represents the disparity at end of charge?

Me thinks yes and revising opinion about healthiest cells, they are the second from last to fully charge.

« Last Edit: September 23, 2023, 05:47:19 AM by PWM »
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PWM

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Re: Balancing good practices
« Reply #35 on: September 23, 2023, 10:45:48 AM »

Charged per usual, she terminates at 98%.

Initiate first balance restart, still 98% at end of cycle.

Was stunned to see 100% after 2nd balance restart.

Wow, after a brief 3-min 4-amp surge at each cycle restart it switches to 0-amps and runs that way util it times out.

Not sure why so little charge made such a big difference unless pack is balanced but not at full capacity.

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wadejesu

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Re: Balancing good practices
« Reply #36 on: September 23, 2023, 06:58:33 PM »

I took a step backwards , After a long ride yesterday I plugged charger in, went to 100% but no charge complete screen, Instead I got 'UNDEFINED FAULT CONTACT SERVICE" and then dark screen. Now what?

 
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Specter

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Re: Balancing good practices
« Reply #37 on: September 23, 2023, 07:28:17 PM »

Turn the bike off, and then turn it back on.   It should be fine.

I had this fault happen once or twice after a charge that went on for a long time. 

Press and HOLD the power button for 10 seconds or so, it should hopefully make the main screen turn on for you and let it cycle thru whatever it is doing and you should be good to go with no other errors. 

Let us know how that goes.

Aaron
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Stonewolf

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Re: Balancing good practices
« Reply #38 on: September 24, 2023, 06:00:48 PM »

Mine hit 100% overnight on Friday so that was nice, maybe it finally sorted itself out since I've been using it heavily (and thus overnight charging more) this month.
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wadejesu

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Re: Balancing good practices
« Reply #39 on: September 24, 2023, 07:31:32 PM »

Rode mine again down to 80%, after charging it went to 100% but still don't get charging complete screen, instead I get a undefined fault for about 2 seconds then shuts off. Seems normal, good range and SOC.
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chisquare

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Re: Balancing good practices
« Reply #40 on: September 25, 2023, 12:11:58 PM »

My bike had a connector issue inside the battery that prevented a full 100% charge. It took us like 1 year to find this issue so basically the bike wasn't balanced for at least a year.

To give some credit to my dealer, this issue is very rare and couldn't be found easily. There's no special error code and the main symptom was that the bike shut off. It only happened 2 times in one year. First time, we thought it was a firmware issue and i thought it was resolved. When i was "balancing" my battery i wasn't to worried to see 98% the next morning and thought i had lost 2% overnight so i thought i was doing the right thing

The second time the bike shut off, i couldn't even charge DC so that why we did some freeze frame and send them to the factory. Then Energica Italy took control of the bike and runs a bunch of test, we made some also and they found that my issue was hardware related and that i was a very rare connecting issue inside the battery. That explain why they flew 3 techs from italy to fix it instead of changing the battery pack. I can't blame my dealer, he's great and this issue is so specific that he couldn't find it "alone"

Thanks for your report. My SS9+RS had that "rare" condition too. It shut down two times while driving without any warning. Gave me the absolute creeps. It turned out that some early + batteries (21.5 kwh) had connectors between the battery packs installed that had wrong specs due to a faulty alloy. They would lead to a "too much voltage" error which for safety reasons triggers an instant shutdown. An Energica tech from Modena changed all the connectors which took him half a day. Since then no more issues.

BTW, my bike didn't show any problematic balancing behavior and max. voltage difference after balancing was 35mv before the connector change. Now it's slightly lower (<30mv).
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Valen

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Re: Balancing good practices
« Reply #41 on: September 25, 2023, 01:52:10 PM »



Same here.

About the small voltage difference it's normal. A balanced battery a 100% is indeed balanced at 99.99% there's always a small tolerance
« Last Edit: September 26, 2023, 12:16:36 PM by Valen »
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Specter

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Re: Balancing good practices
« Reply #42 on: September 25, 2023, 10:28:56 PM »

i believe around 3 to 5 millivolts is the typical variance that will trigger a balancing needed / activate the balancing circuitry, ie forward bias the device etc etc.  Most the packs you can buy online to balance batteries, this is their threshold, and TBH you really don't need anything with a tolerance tighter than that.

Aaron
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wadejesu

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Re: Balancing good practices
« Reply #43 on: October 02, 2023, 08:03:03 PM »

So the only way to confirm battery is completely balanced is getting a " charge complete screen " and not just 100% SOC ?
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Valen

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Re: Balancing good practices
« Reply #44 on: October 02, 2023, 10:01:00 PM »

No once you get 100% it means that the battery is balanced

It's already a PITA no need to wait for a confirmation screen ;)
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