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[Keumgang]

A newbie here!…..thanks for the awesome posts! Very helpful….

To bring the comparison in another area, one of the reasons for me being interested in moving to an electric bike (after a long wait to get them matured) is the sound (not a fan of loud noise, give me the music instead).

In a recent motorcycle magazine article (MOTOPLUS) there was a comparison test between these two bikes. One of the many things compared was the noise. It was said that the DSR/X was very quiet (not much motor noise) and the Experia was a screamer (when e.g. accelerating hard).

Not talking about belt/chain difference now. The testers said that the Experia was similar to the sound of the Ducati Streetfighter V4 S (ICE) when opening the throttle hard.

This really surprised me…is this really true?

FYI: see attached a dB(A)-test of 8 motorbikes (including these 2 electrics). Font is a bit weird as pic was taken using Google Translate, translating Dutch text to English.

Hayo

[DonTom]

A newbie here!…..thanks for the awesome posts! Very helpful….

To bring the comparison in another area, one of the reasons for me being interested in moving to an electric bike (after a long wait to get them matured) is the sound (not a fan of loud noise, give me the music instead).

In a recent motorcycle magazine article (MOTOPLUS) there was a comparison test between these two bikes. One of the many things compared was the noise. It was said that the DSR/X was very quiet (not much motor noise) and the Experia was a screamer (when e.g. accelerating hard).

Not talking about belt/chain difference now. The testers said that the Experia was similar to the sound of the Ducati Streetfighter V4 S (ICE) when opening the throttle hard.

This really surprised me…is this really true?

FYI: see attached a dB(A)-test of 8 motorbikes (including these 2 electrics). Font is a bit weird as pic was taken using Google Translate, translating Dutch text to English.

Hayo

I do NOT find the noise to be objectionable on the Experia. Not a big issue to me. But riders behind me say it is quite loud. IAC, I would rate it as being true, but not a big deal. Zero has no gearbox as well as no chain, unlike the Experia which has both. Experia has more power and torque, and more power and torque usually means a bit more noise. However, the Zero DSR/x has more than enough power, IMO.


If the noise makes a big difference to you, you will want the DSR/x more than the Experia. But the noise on the Experia to the rider is not bad. It is worse behind it, from what others have told me,  who were riding behind me.


-Don-  Reno, NV

[Keumgang]

Ok, that's interesting. Noise for others or self...something to think about, who wins? 

The other thing I noticed in the summary report of the comparison (I have attached the rating for each compared item) is that the bikes apparently differ quite a bit in a few points. If you can give your view, that would be great....you're such a help with having both bikes. I have the q's below highlighted in the pic.

1. the cornering stability. Any truth in the test difference?
2: breaking downhill. It appears that the rider loses confidence after a number of strong breaks due to less effective breaking (the need for a squeeze): DSR/X
3. Ground clearance. Just wonder if you ever noticed that.
4. Wind and weather protection. Which would have the capability of less turbulence (head protected, not clean wind). Say for a 6.1 rider? I am using a barn-door on the GS now but that won't be available for these bikes I think?

It worth to mention that this test was done in the Alps and testing the bikes on their specific capability to do the heavy twisties up and down the mountain passes. I guess an exceptional burden on the bikes, not something on the menu of a day-today rider ....for example, they said the DSR/X got eventually an overheated motor and forced the rider to slow down by making less power available to rider.


thanks for any input!
Hayo

[Oilcan]

The review Don is doing on this thread is great real world information. I can only address one of your questions about the DSR/X and that is wind protection and head buffeting. Zero does offer the barn door option windshield but I don’t have it. I am a 5’7” rider and the stock windshield does a good job with smooth air flow, however I was getting just a little too much wind noise and noticed I could lower my head just a little and it would reduce the wind noise. I purchased a small 7” Givi wind deflector that attaches to the top of the windshield and it did the trick. Very smooth airflow and I love it. The upper body wind protection is very good. You do get more wind on your lower legs than you do on a GS. I have only ridden it in a light shower for a few miles and it seems about average protection.

[flynnstig82r]

A newbie here!…..thanks for the awesome posts! Very helpful….

To bring the comparison in another area, one of the reasons for me being interested in moving to an electric bike (after a long wait to get them matured) is the sound (not a fan of loud noise, give me the music instead).

In a recent motorcycle magazine article (MOTOPLUS) there was a comparison test between these two bikes. One of the many things compared was the noise. It was said that the DSR/X was very quiet (not much motor noise) and the Experia was a screamer (when e.g. accelerating hard).

Not talking about belt/chain difference now. The testers said that the Experia was similar to the sound of the Ducati Streetfighter V4 S (ICE) when opening the throttle hard.

This really surprised me…is this really true?

FYI: see attached a dB(A)-test of 8 motorbikes (including these 2 electrics). Font is a bit weird as pic was taken using Google Translate, translating Dutch text to English.

Hayo

The sound on my 2020 Experia SS9 13.4 seemed nowhere near as loud as my previous 2011 Ducati Multistrada 1200, which I would in turn expect to be quieter than a Streetfighter of any engine configuration. I only rode an Experia briefly, but it didn’t strike me as any louder than my SS9. The sound is noticeable, but not at all like even the quietest ICE bikes, especially at slower in-town speeds where Energicas are very quiet. When I was considering trading my Zero SR for an Energica, I worried about the sound since I also don’t like to make a lot of noise and draw attention, but it was never an issue for me and I doubt it would be for you either.

[DonTom]

It worth to mention that this test was done in the Alps and testing the bikes on their specific capability to do the heavy twisties up and down the mountain passes. I guess an exceptional burden on the bikes, not something on the menu of a day-today rider ....for example, they said the DSR/X got eventually an overheated motor and forced the rider to slow down by making less power available to rider.


thanks for any input!
Hayo

The main one I disagree with is the wind protection. I felt it was better on the DSR/x. I was blown around a lot the other day when I was in Carson City, NV on my Experia. But I really cannot ride both bikes at the same time to do a fair comparison. And as I mentioned before the Experia only has around 1.5" (38mm) of windshield adjustment. The Zero DSR/x has around 3.5" (89mm) of adjustment, more than double that of the Experia. Perhaps the DSR/x gets a little more wind to resist than the Experia and perhaps that makes a difference. BTW, I am also 6'1".  I find either bike comfy enough for between charge stops. I probably have not yet had the DSR/x in as much wind as I had the other day. But I can say I was NOT impressed by the way the Experia handles in the wind. It's nothing like riding my Triumph Trophy SE (ICE bike) , which I find to have the very best wind protection of all of my 11 bikes. I often don't realize how windy it is until I stop when riding the TTSE. Surprisingly, I do not find the wind protection to be all that great on my 1,000 lbs Harley. Anyway, now back to the DSR/x and Experia.

I mostly ride like a little old lady, which is good for range on the electrics, but I doubt if I would ever overheat either motor and I especially doubt if I could ever overheat the brake. Most of my stopping is by the regen, which I always have set up high for going downhill. I use the throttle to adjust for regen. I only fully release the throttle when I want to stop.

For ground clearance, with nobody on the bike, the DSR/x has several more inches. I assume that is the same difference when ridden. That is not surprising as the Experia has a gigantic battery, which is probably the biggest plus on the side of the Experia. They have to put the large battery somewhere and if it were up higher, it would make the bike more top heavy. But I would expect the DSR/x to be better in the dirt, but so far, I have not had either bike off the pavement for more than a few feet.

Most things with motorcycles are trade-offs anyway. Make something better by making something else worse.

For cornering stability, I would say both bikes handle well, feel great while riding (at least until the big shifting wind gusts come) but you really need to ask a much faster rider than I am to do a better comparison WRT anything at speed. I normally stay close to the speed limits (even less if nobody is behind me). On electrics, if charge stops are needed, you get places faster by riding slower.

But IMO, there is a lot more to judge with motorcycles than performance. Such as all the bugs that need fixing in the Experia FW, where the DSR/x had all the bugs worked out before they put the bike on the market.  I have yet to find any bug at all of any type with my DSR/x. I get the feeling the Experia was rushed out, as it was already much later than expected to be delivered. I still have no idea why the bike promised in September of 2022 didn't get to most of us me until Feb of 2023. Where they trying to get more of the bugs out? But my big complaint there was not it being late, but that I heard nothing at all from anybody until Jan 2023 when I first heard I will get my bike in Feb., and did.

I would be nice if these bikes would show a FW version number, but I hear it is not shown in any of the user menus.

-Don-  Reno, NV

[Keumgang]

Very useful info!

@Oilcan, good to hear there is a b-door available for the Zero. It made me look at their website and the special section with all accessories tells all, great!

@Flynnstig82r, no idea where they got the Streetfighter sound compare from (I guess the dBa meter, duh). The only thing that was mentioned was that it was full open-throttle launch from a hairpin and keep going hard uphill until the next pin.
Me, looking for the i-dunno-emoticon.

@Don, the software glitches you mentioned really pulled my enthusiasm down TBH. Especially the stuck charger! Assume you reported it. And strange that you have never been notified of software version updates. It’s not a good thing because I as a potential buyer now know that there isn’t full disclosure on trying to improve, which might affect their sales. It’s just a customer-service type of thing, as you already mentioned (e.g. late delivery w/o info etc).

BTW, now you talked about regen. I always wanted to have regen that brings (my e-car) to a full stop (doesn’t do it)…Don, from your writing I understand they both come to a full stop (if regen was set to high). That’s a good thing IMO: one-handed riding!

FYI: last pic from the magazine. these two bikes' performance comparison and I added 2 strong naked ones on the side - for fun. I guess as known, the pull is at least as good as these strong classified ICEs, looking at the figures.

H….

[DonTom]

@Don, the software glitches you mentioned really pulled my enthusiasm down TBH. Especially the stuck charger! Assume you reported it. And strange that you have never been notified of software version updates. It’s not a good thing because I as a potential buyer now know that there isn’t full disclosure on trying to improve, which might affect their sales. It’s just a customer-service type of thing, as you already mentioned (e.g. late delivery w/o info etc).

BTW, now you talked about regen. I always wanted to have regen that brings (my e-car) to a full stop (doesn’t do it)…Don, from your writing I understand they both come to a full stop (if regen was set to high). That’s a good thing IMO: one-handed riding!

What is your E-car?   I own a 2017 Tesla, AWD, LR, and a 2022 Chevy Bolt. Both can come to a stop on regen, but you have to time it right as well as select one-pedal driving in some, such as Tesla.  I like the way my Bolt does it better. Has a regen control on the steering wheel that I can use instead of the brake.


Back to the Experia vs. DSR/X:


I have been doing some riding in the dark lately, so I will comment on that.


The high beam is MUCH better on my Experia. Lights up the entire road nicely. Very poor on my DSR/X. Does almost nothing. But I think it is way out of adjustment, which a new bike shouldn't be. It looks like the high beam shoots way up, not even close to the road, making it useless. I wish to hear from other DSR/X owners here on that one, if you have ridden yours at night when very dark. It is so bad on my DSR/x, that there is no reason to even try to use it. I hope it's just mine and can be adjusted correctly.


Back to the cruise controls, but at night. I find it is easy to use at night on the DSR/x and I used it a lot tonight coming back from a 200-mile ride into the CA mountains. While the kill switch is close, just above cruise control button, it is easy to feel and even if you hit the kill switch you will hit it on the "run" side that is already in anyway. Makes it easy to use in the dark. But it is still best to look at it first when light and remember it for night riding. I found it easy to find and use in the dark without even worrying about hitting the kill switch, after I took a good look at it before it got dark.


The cruise control on the Experia is in a very stupid location. It is just above the kill side of the kill switch. I would NOT recommend trying to use it at all when it is dark. But if you can feel for the middle button with gloves on, it is possible. I would rather not even try to use it in the dark on the Experia.


-Don-  Reno, NV

[DonTom]

@Don, the software glitches you mentioned really pulled my enthusiasm down TBH. Especially the stuck charger!

Hard to say for sure, but that could be a one-time only glitch. I am just glad it released at the very end of the charge at 100% SOC. I have no idea what I would have done if it still would not release then. IAC, it cut my trip short. I went straight back home after that, with the cruise control "undefined fault" on the way back home. I find those two glitches intolerable.

I don't find the delayed or false messages on the screen to be a big deal. Those didn't kill the motor or anything other than the false (or very delayed) message.


But the charge cable being stuck and the "undefined fault" when trying to use the cruise control (and once in a while when in reverse) is quite a bit different.

Assume you reported it.

Nope, I only mentioned it here. If there is somewhere I should report it, I don't know where, but I will after I find out here or wherever.


-Don-  Reno, NV

[princec]

@Don, the software glitches you mentioned really pulled my enthusiasm down TBH. Especially the stuck charger!

Hard to say for sure, but that could be a one-time only glitch. I am just glad it released at the very end of the charge at 100% SOC. I have no idea what I would have done if it still would not release then. IAC, it cut my trip short. I went straight back home after that, with the cruise control "undefined fault" on the way back home. I find those two glitches intolerable.

There is no such thing as a one-time only glitch in software! If it happened once, it will happen again. That's what software is especially good at doing.

Cas

[flynnstig82r]

@Flynnstig82r, no idea where they got the Streetfighter sound compare from (I guess the dBa meter, duh). The only thing that was mentioned was that it was full open-throttle launch from a hairpin and keep going hard uphill until the next pin.
Me, looking for the i-dunno-emoticon.

I think the main difference is that a loud ICE bike is loud all the time. You can't start it up in a quiet neighborhood in the early hours without pissing everyone off. A "loud" e-motorcycle like the Energicas, OTOH, is only loud when it's already going double or triple the speed limit of a quiet street. The sound meter may read similar results, but only one bike is perceived as obnoxious. Noise levels shouldn't factor into your decision about whether to buy Energica or another brand of e-motorcycle.

[DonTom]

There is no such thing as a one-time only glitch in software! If it happened once, it will happen again. That's what software is especially good at doing.

Cas

Well, I hope the next time is shows up is more than 20 years from now.


-Don-  Charging up here.

[DonTom]

I just recalled something else (a rather small thing) I like better on the DSR/x than the Experia.  it has a 12-volt outlet, nothing to modify.  It can be used as USB with a $1.25 adapter, so I have a choice for 12VDC or USB. But I power my GPS and TPMS with one of these thingies.


The Experia has USB only, so if you want 12 volts, you need to modify the bike a little. While they do make USB to 12V converters, they are only good for very low current making them rather useless for almost anything that requires 12V.


I also just noticed while charging my SDR/x here, it has a 12V connector on the left side of the battery that is not being used. Perhaps a connector for 12V heated clothing? I have not yet checked the owner's manual. I just now discovered it.


BTW, this sure is a nice place to charge. They not only let non-customers charge (without even asking) I was told I can use the lobby here, while I am waiting to charge. And that is where  I am right now.


-Don-

[DonTom]

I went on a nice 211-mile (340 km) ride on the DSR/x today.

And today, I discovered something important while charging here in Truckee,CA. By accident.

I always use one of my Chargepoint RFID cards to activate Chargepoint AC charge stations as well as their DC chargers.

While I was fooling around with my laptop computer as I always do at charge stops, I decided to check into my Chargepoint account to see if I could get the information from today's charge while I was a quarter mile away from where the bike was charging. From a picnic table under a bunch of shady trees. I never even looked at the website since the day I ordered my RFID cards-until today.

I discovered by accident I was being stupid with my Energica in South Lake Tahoe the other day when the charge cable was stuck to the Experia. I mentioned I could not find a way to stop the AC charge station from the charge station itself, which was true.

I used the ChargePoint program on my computer to see if I could see the information where I was charging today in Truckee (above link).  This is the exact same type of charge station that gave me trouble in South Lake Tahoe the other day where I could not stop the charge on my Experia.

The Chargepoint website showed my charge there in Truckee with a big fat window that said "Stop the Charge."

So I tried it there in Truckee today. It stopped the charge instantly. That was all I had to do the other day in South Lake Tahoe with my Energica when the cable was stuck.

So perhaps that bug is not as serious as I thought. I can start with the card and stop the AC charge station with the computer or tablet which I always have with me while riding.

That sure is nice to know. This will make me more comfortable charging the Experia with AC from now on. At least from J-1772 Chargepoints.


-Don-  Reno, NV

[Keumgang]

One more thing about the sound: I am just hoping that when at normal highway speed, I don’t have to listen to motor sound, but instead music (assuming there is no wind noise (good screen) and road noise is obviously unavoidable). As such the question for sound …. an important reason for my switch to e.

Don, you could try the Chargpoint app on your mobile phone to start and stop the charging?
P.s. on your question about one-pedal driving. My (old) Tesla model S 85D, does not have that option unfortunately.

Hayo.