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[Merlin]

Seeking opinions.

Have owned many motorcycles since adolescence starting with dirt bikes. Over the years, have owned dirt bikes up to XR650 and street bikes up to CB1000s. I am old(er) now (mid 60s) and less adventuresome.  Want to get a bike for casual street and dirt road riding. Size wise, I am 71” tall x 150 lbs.

One of the of the bikes I am considering is a Zero DS. I have level 2 charging in my garage. The other bike I am considering is a Honda CB500X. Thoughts?

I would be interested in hearing from folks who have owned Zero bikes, especially a DS. Have you been happy with your Zeros compared to nonelectric bikes you owned.

Also from riders who might live in the Austin and San Antonio, TX area, any opinions on AF1 Racing and/or Mission City as dealers.

Thanks very much!

[ILRNICK]

Hey Merlin,

I own a 2022 DS and I'm really happy with going the electric route. I mostly use my bike for commuting and it is an excellent commuter, great in the city and still some guts to keep up on the highway. As far as for dirt riding I can't lend much of an opinion but depending on how close the trails are to you I would consider the DSR as it will have more legs to get you to and from the trials while still giving you enough juice to get some mud on the tires.

[MVetter]

If you're considering the DS you might also consider the FX. AF1 is a solid dealer; I haven't heard people say bad things about them. You're probably in very good hands with them.

[Merlin]

Hey Merlin,

I own a 2022 DS and I'm really happy with going the electric route. I mostly use my bike for commuting and it is an excellent commuter, great in the city and still some guts to keep up on the highway. As far as for dirt riding I can't lend much of an opinion but depending on how close the trails are to you I would consider the DSR as it will have more legs to get you to and from the trials while still giving you enough juice to get some mud on the tires.

Super helpful. Thank you.

I have some off road opportunities within a few miles of me. In addition, I was looking for a bike that could go into the back of my pickup or onto the hitch rack. The DS, FX and CB500X can all go onto the hitch rack.

[Merlin]

If you're considering the DS you might also consider the FX. AF1 is a solid dealer; I haven't heard people say bad things about them. You're probably in very good hands with them.

Thanks very much.

I am considering the FX. The seat height is quite a bit higher and my inseam is not long enough to flat foot

[Specter]

Merlin, I am an Energica fan myself, but one thing to consider, the E bikes are heavy, especially the ones with some balls behind them.  Batteries are not light and a motor that power dense is not a tin can either.  Into a back of a pickup w/o help might be a dangerous feat if you were to tip it halfway up a ramp.  Id stick with a trailer or another type of hitching system.

Another option to keep an open mind on is, history.  How many times is a bike being recalled over battery issues, this, that and other serious things like that.   Yes Yes I know ANYone can have problems, but some seem to be having a lot more problems than others are.

Id take a serious look thru this forum, and other places online and see what a bike / a manufacturers general past history is like.  If a bike is constantly in the shop or needing it's battery changed out because of a defect for the nth teenth time... do you want to deal with that really?   For me at least, reliability is a BIG issue.

Aaron

[TheRan]

My inseam is 30" and with some off road boots and enough sag set I can flat foot my DS. While the FX's seat is 1.5" higher I imagine I could manage that as well, it's a narrower seat and with more suspension travel on the rear it'll have more sag. For off road riding you'll probably want to replace the tyres on the DS, the stock ones are a little disappointing. Also you're like an inch taller than me and I have I think 1 inch bar risers and even then I find myself wanting more when standing, so you might want to get risers as well as switch to some taller bars.

Other than those two niggles I think it works pretty well off road, fairly light if you get the 7.2 model, more than enough torque, super easy to ride slowly especially compared to a gas bike. It's also nice being quiet and not disturbing anyone else and being able to stop and take in the scenery without having to faff about putting the bike in neutral or even killing the engine.

[princec]

Neither the DS and FX have any rein in on their traction - they're very easy to highside and lowside - unlike the CB500 which you can merrily thrash the wheels off without fear. Bear that in mind. (I've got a CB500 too... well, Mrs. Prince has... I use it when I have to do 350 miles in a day, which happens about twice a year)

Cas

[DonTom]

Seeking opinions.

Have owned many motorcycles since adolescence starting with dirt bikes. Over the years, have owned dirt bikes up to XR650 and street bikes up to CB1000s. I am old(er) now (mid 60s) and less adventuresome.  Want to get a bike for casual street and dirt road riding. Size wise, I am 71” tall x 150 lbs.

One of the of the bikes I am considering is a Zero DS. I have level 2 charging in my garage. The other bike I am considering is a Honda CB500X. Thoughts?

I would be interested in hearing from folks who have owned Zero bikes, especially a DS. Have you been happy with your Zeros compared to nonelectric bikes you owned.

Also from riders who might live in the Austin and San Antonio, TX area, any opinions on AF1 Racing and/or Mission City as dealers.

Thanks very much!

You could have a problem in the Texas heat with the Zero DS. If the battery gets too hot, it will not let you charge. Last year, I got stuck in Carson City, NV for hours because it was 104° F  and after a 50-mile ride in the heat.  But you should be okay if you only want it for local things. But that was what I thought when I bought my Zero DS, but now I take many road trips with it these days.


The DS will charge at a level one rate with 240 VAC unless you have off-market chargers for it. I use two Elcons, 2.5KW each and I charge my DS at around 6.4 KW on the road on J-plugs. At home, I use a Tesla Wall Connector and Tesla-Tap to charge it.


I would say the DS is a great reliable bike, but far from perfect in temp extremes.


-Don-  Reno, NV

[Merlin]

Merlin, I am an Energica fan myself, but one thing to consider, the E bikes are heavy, especially the ones with some balls behind them.  Batteries are not light and a motor that power dense is not a tin can either.  Into a back of a pickup w/o help might be a dangerous feat if you were to tip it halfway up a ramp.  Id stick with a trailer or another type of hitching system.

Another option to keep an open mind on is, history.  How many times is a bike being recalled over battery issues, this, that and other serious things like that.   Yes Yes I know ANYone can have problems, but some seem to be having a lot more problems than others are.

Id take a serious look thru this forum, and other places online and see what a bike / a manufacturers general past history is like.  If a bike is constantly in the shop or needing it's battery changed out because of a defect for the nth teenth time... do you want to deal with that really?   For me at least, reliability is a BIG issue.

Aaron

Aaron, thank you for your thoughts across multiple considerations. Much appreciated.

For me too, reliability is a HUGE issue.

I think everyone with a home should have some type of trailer. It's a much safer way to move items. Unfortunately, not everyone agrees. A short, single axis trailer (e.g. motorcycle trailer, jet ski trailer, small cargo trailer) is hard to back up.

[jotjotde]

Merlin, I am an Energica fan myself, but one thing to consider, the E bikes are heavy, especially the ones with some balls behind them.  Batteries are not light and a motor that power dense is not a tin can either.  Into a back of a pickup w/o help might be a dangerous feat if you were to tip it halfway up a ramp.  Id stick with a trailer or another type of hitching system.

Another option to keep an open mind on is, history.  How many times is a bike being recalled over battery issues, this, that and other serious things like that.   Yes Yes I know ANYone can have problems, but some seem to be having a lot more problems than others are.

Id take a serious look thru this forum, and other places online and see what a bike / a manufacturers general past history is like.  If a bike is constantly in the shop or needing it's battery changed out because of a defect for the nth teenth time... do you want to deal with that really?   For me at least, reliability is a BIG issue.

Aaron

Aaron, thank you for your thoughts across multiple considerations. Much appreciated.

For me too, reliability is a HUGE issue.

I think everyone with a home should have some type of trailer. It's a much safer way to move items. Unfortunately, not everyone agrees. A short, single axis trailer (e.g. motorcycle trailer, jet ski trailer, small cargo trailer) is hard to back up.

I am a former Zero SR/F owner and now driving an Energica. That should speak for itself. Zero appeared to me as either incompetent or customer-unfriendly.

Having a good dealership is surely nice, but won't help you if the issue is with Zero as a company. For instance, if you get a faulty battery, your dealer is helpless if Zero is no supplying a new one (as in my case). For two months they were not able to deliver a new one so I gave back the bike to my dealer under 'lemon law'. In another biker forum I read about a Zero owner having to wait 7 months for a new battery.

Secondly, is a drive belt the right choice for rough conditions? From my (limited) experience with mountainbiking I would prefer a chain.

If you trailer your bike anyway, why not considering a KTM Freeride E-XC?

[princec]

I should probably chime in here with the opposite experience of Zero - they've gone out of their way to keep me on the road and fix stuff. My bike has had its front discs, dash, and both chargers, fixed under warranty*, and now the battery too although there's a 3 month wait for it but fortunately it still rides fine for me even with the battery issue ("Magic Charging"). They lent me an SR/F for the whole summer last year while mine was off the road being fiddled with, which I realise is a bit unusual but then here I am, defending them and saying they've done me well enough to properly consider buying another Zero when the time comes, so it's worked...

Cas

* After the warranty replacement discs also warped I realised the problem was the OEM discs were never going to work out and I fitted EMC discs instead at my expense, though they paid for the fitment under the terms of the guarantee.

[Starpower]

I got the Admit Jet Armor a few weeks ago. I'm very impressed with it. 5kWh battery (CATL cells) 20kW motor with reverse and a 4 speed tranny. 730 lb-ft of crazy torque. Absolutely insane in 1st gear, I think it might do 3 loops before hitting the ground, lol! They have a lighting kit for a $125 adder. Texas is likely an easy street legal process. 85 mph. My 1st ride I went 20 miles at an avg. speed of 22 and made a 3000' elevation climb and used 50% battery. I also got into some tight spots and REALLY appreciated the reverse, that is so sweet! The build quality is shockingly high quality.

For the money of $4,700 to my door, I'm not aware of what can beat it.

https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/2023-AdmitJet-Armor-20000W-72V-Max_1600060784412.html

[Merlin]

Thank you, Don. My use would be local and I normally don't ride when it's really hot.

Do you have the Charge Tank? Probably don't want the Change Tank in any case because I won't be using the DS for road trips. The Charge Tank doesn't seem to be available at the moment in any case.

I will definitely get at least one Quick Charger. All the 120V circuits in my house are 20A and I have multiple 120V circuits for the garage.

Also have a 240V 60A (breaker size) circuit with a 15-40 receptacle in my garage. Also have a Level 2 charger with a J1772 tap that plugs into that receptacle. Researching potential ways to charge the DS with this charger without having to buy the Charge Tank.

Thanks again.


[/quote]You could have a problem in the Texas heat with the Zero DS. If the battery gets too hot, it will not let you charge. Last year, I got stuck in Carson City, NV for hours because it was 104° F  and after a 50-mile ride in the heat.  But you should be okay if you only want it for local things. But that was what I thought when I bought my Zero DS, but now I take many road trips with it these days.


The DS will charge at a level one rate with 240 VAC unless you have off-market chargers for it. I use two Elcons, 2.5KW each and I charge my DS at around 6.4 KW on the road on J-plugs. At home, I use a Tesla Wall Connector and Tesla-Tap to charge it.


I would say the DS is a great reliable bike, but far from perfect in temp extremes.


-Don-  Reno, NV
[/quote]

[DonTom]

Thank you, Don. My use would be local and I normally don't ride when it's really hot.

Do you have the Charge Tank? Probably don't want the Change Tank in any case because I won't be using the DS for road trips. The Charge Tank doesn't seem to be available at the moment in any case.

I will definitely get at least one Quick Charger. All the 120V circuits in my house are 20A and I have multiple 120V circuits for the garage.

Also have a 240V 60A (breaker size) circuit with a 15-40 receptacle in my garage. Also have a Level 2 charger with a J1772 tap that plugs into that receptacle. Researching potential ways to charge the DS with this charger without having to buy the Charge Tank.

Thanks again.

No, I do not have the Charge Tank. I use two 2.5KW external chargers, made by Elcon wired into the motor controller battery terminals. With the OBC, I can charge my 2017 Zero DS at 6.4 KW.


It's probably best to charge at 240 VAC, the OBC is more efficient with 240 VAC (less heat inside the charger could make it last longer) but it will not charge any faster than when on 120 VAC if you use the stuff Zero recommends. You can but a decent adapter for your J-1772. See here.   The J-1772 adapter made there is much better than the one available from Zero.


-Don-  Reno, NV