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[DonTom]

At the end of the day the charging stations ideally will ALL use the same damned plugs, and just be fighting for your  business over features / price.  Just like you can pick what brand gasoline you use, it ALL is at the same standards and works the same way.

They have a Tesla charging station out here it has like 8 pull ins to charge at but all have the goofy tesla plug.  What would I need to plug that goofy plug into my energica?  I have not looked for 'magic dock' yet but so far have found pretty much nothing to go from Tesla to CCS-1 however plenty to charge your tesla, with CCS-1

Aaron

If you're asking about Tesla SuperChargers, you are most likely out of luck for now. There are several Magic Docks in NY state and two in all of CA. And that is all for now.


But if you're asking about the small Tesla Destination Station (TDS), that look like my attached file here, then all you need is one of these thingies.


The way to use it is to connect it to the TDS withOUT the bike for at least two minutes. Then connect it up to charge.


Don't believe the 30-second wait time, they all say that and I have NEVER gotten one to work after only 30 seconds. And I have more of them than I can count that I have tried. Two minutes or longer with no load.


BTW, I have noticed many older 14 KW Tesla Charge Stations will only charge for ten minutes and then go to red and need to be reset. Try to avoid the 14KW Tesla AC Charge stations where possible.  But even those will work if you come back every ten minutes to reset them. The 12KW and the 8KW TDS I never had any issues with. Work as well as a J-1772 if you do not count the short wait for the TDS to switch to a J-plug mode.


The TDC must show a green light in front. That light will move when you have charging. If it changes to red, charging stops. You then have to start all over again, including the two-minute wait. The reset button is on the side of the TDS. Hold it in for five seconds to reset and the red should go to green.


By far, in most cases there will be no problem at all, unless your stuck with the 14KW units. The units say the wattage, and so does Plugshare.


-Don-  Reno, NV

[Specter]

Ok, so that thing will let you use the AC part of the tesla station.  Unfortunately still only 15 amps as that is all Energica will allow.  It's better than nothing in a pinch tho i guess if you  need a charge.  An hour will push you another 20 miles or so.

I may have to see if I can borrow one and see if it works around here on these stations.  They seem to be the plug with just the tesla two prong thing on them.  I'll have to take a picture next time i see one to show you

aaron

[Richard230]

In response to my posting the above article on a BMW motorcycle forum I received this interesting response from a Tesla owner:


Inevitable. Before the Model S went into production Tesla tried to give the ANSI committee their NACS Supercharging technology as a standard but the short sighted committee members didn't believe there would be a need for fast DC charging of consumer EVs. Also they feared putting AC and DC on the same pins of Tesla's elegant connector.

DC requires heavier and more expensive switches to break contact. No matter neither J1772 nor NACS puts power on the pins until after a secure safe connection and communication with vehicle has been established, they were afraid they would have to use DC qualified components even when not implementing DC charging.

Years later the committee invented the bastardized CCS connector, grafting extra pins on the side of the already awkward J1772 connector. Everyone hates the CCS connector. Not to mention the unreliable government backed Electrify America "charging" network.

Tesla speaks J1772 on the elegant NACS connector for AC charging. But extends that to recognize a Supercharger has been connected, then speaks Supercharger protocol which includes vehicle ID so there is no messy app or credit card. Billing info appears on the console in-vehicle.
 

[Specter]

The CCS protocol, if you look at it, is really sleazy too, some old, no longer relevant engineer from the 60's decided to use HIS technology to make this thing work by golly, because well in a nuclear war, the CCS charger will be OK !!  As long as you have a pots phone to speak to it with !!

Whenever you get government involved, you always get some horrible shit as an outcome.  Remember, they are working on job security, they are NOT the best and brightest minds, the smart people work everywhere BUT government for 5x the pay.

Hell, CCS  has 3 big connectors on it, make it 3 phase and almost double the power it can deliver.

the stations by me are just like pylons sticking out. No screens or buttons on them really.  name plate says 500 volt 350 amp so am guessing it's a superstation type setup.  Here is what the plug looks like, so ill probably have to get the app to activate it before being able to plug it in... shrug..  i might spend next weekend playing here see what I can fiddle out.

Aaron

[DonTom]

Ok, so that thing will let you use the AC part of the tesla station.  Unfortunately still only 15 amps as that is all Energica will allow.  It's better than nothing in a pinch tho i guess if you  need a charge.  An hour will push you another 20 miles or so.

I may have to see if I can borrow one and see if it works around here on these stations.  They seem to be the plug with just the tesla two prong thing on them.  I'll have to take a picture next time i see one to show you

aaron

You can buy them at much higher current ratings. I linked to a cheap one because the Energicas only have a 3 KW charger.


Here, I often use a 60-amp Tesla to J-1772 adapter. I have a Tesla Wall Connector and I charge my 2017 Zero SR as high as 10KW (external chargers) and I also use it on my 2022 Chevy Bolt, which has a 12 KW charger. But I keep a 3-KW Tesla to J-1772 adapter in both my Energicas.


It would be nice if the Energicas had 6 KW AC charging, but even the 3KW is useful for a long break. But I take my Zero SR if I am in an area with only J-1772 and Tesla AC stations and charge it as high as 8 KW when on the road.


-Don- Reno, NV

[HoodRichOG]

The CCS protocol, if you look at it, is really sleazy too, some old, no longer relevant engineer from the 60's decided to use HIS technology to make this thing work by golly, because well in a nuclear war, the CCS charger will be OK !!  As long as you have a pots phone to speak to it with !!

Whenever you get government involved, you always get some horrible shit as an outcome.  Remember, they are working on job security, they are NOT the best and brightest minds, the smart people work everywhere BUT government for 5x the pay.

Hell, CCS  has 3 big connectors on it, make it 3 phase and almost double the power it can deliver.

the stations by me are just like pylons sticking out. No screens or buttons on them really.  name plate says 500 volt 350 amp so am guessing it's a superstation type setup.  Here is what the plug looks like, so ill probably have to get the app to activate it before being able to plug it in... shrug..  i might spend next weekend playing here see what I can fiddle out.

Aaron

You cannot activate a supercharger station unless it's one of the 4 from NY or CA with a magic dock.

[Specter]

So that is a supercharger station?   Maybe I'll have to join  Twatter to bitch at Elon Musk to change the things so they CAN be activated by phone or something.

Ive also been dinging Energica about the 3kw charger too, I mean shit, pretty much ANY standard 240 outlet in the US is breakered at 30 amp or more.  Many 50.  The Range, The Dryer, The Air Handler if you have 'Emergency Heat' on your thermostat to kick in a 10 KW heating coil.  They ARE there!   There are also extension cords you can buy too,  extremely Fkn expensive, which I don't get, maybe they consider it niche still, but ARE available.  You can easily make your own too, MUCH CHEAPER, which I have for my Commercial Coffee Roaster.  Bitch will pull 60 amps all day off the 50 Amp range plug w/o problems or heating issues.
Though I absolutely can NOT recommend doing that to a normal person, 50 amps is absolutely doable.  ie 12 KW.
Let's pull 10 amps less to be safe and to account for older houses bla bla.  that's 9.6 Kw.  STILL very impressive for a standard out of the wall small ass DC charger!!

A quick piggy back of the charger IN there would give the Energica 7.2 KW.  ie 30 Amp, lets say it's a 35 amp draw to be safe.  Cupcake time !!!  Using THEIR existing software etc etc. it'd be limited to say 30 amp, in reality probably about 25 amp.  ie 6 KW. ABSOLUTELY DOABLE AND A MARKET SETTER FOR BIKES !!!

If the rider has the option like we do now of changing charging value, we can tweak it down to say 24 or 23 amps to suit our individual outlets.

Energica you need to offer this upgrade! even if you charged a bit more for it, many would GO FOR IT !!
You need to give me one since it was MY idea to do so,     , Ill prototype it, and in return I would run all over Florida, testing the thing out and giving you valuable feedback on it's workability!

Just saying
Aaron

[DonTom]

So that is a supercharger station? 

Magic Dock is a thingy that is installed to a few Tesla Superchargers in the USA. Does most people no good, unless Tesla does all or at least most of them. For now, perhaps best you never even heard about Magic Dock, if you're in Florida. There are NONE installed in Florida. And it is not a thing you can buy. So best to just forget it exists, at least for now. IMO, the Tesla Superchargers are likewise useless to our Energicas, even where they did install the Magic Dock. Can only get 9 KW charging to our Energicas and AFAIK, they are all close to other real CCS chargers where you can charge above 20 KW. So the Tesla SC and Magic Dock is useless to us for now. But let's hope that changes soon.


The Superchargers are tall, you cannot miss them. About the same size as a CCS charger.


The Tesla Wall Connectors and Tesla Destination charge stations are very small. Smaller than a J-1772 station, yet often have more power available.


See photos of each below. The small ones can be used on any Energica, with the Tesla-Tap. The Tesla-Tap will not work with Tesla Superchargers.


-Don-  Reno, NV

[DonTom]

You cannot activate a supercharger station unless it's one of the 4 from NY or CA with a magic dock.

There are now eight Magic Docs in NY state, two in CA. A total of ten in the entire USA.


See here.


AFAIK, none have been added since March.




-Don-  Reno, NV

[Specter]

Yep, these are the super chargers then.  Oh well.
The reason I was looking at them was because there really are NOT a lot of CCS chargers around here.  Yes a company here and there may have a J charger but most of them are OOC or what I could plug in and do at home.

That will change here soon hopefully.
I am getting 30 KW DC fast charger delivered to my home here when it shows up, hopefully another few weeks as it's being custom built for me.  It will be semi portable meaning I can take it to the track with me when I decide to go for a whirl on the fun bike I am soon getting !! :D

I will probably put it on the plug share network and offer to share it with others, (not that there are a hell of a lot of people around here mind you that are not tesla snobs, but hey, what a way to meet them.  Here, grab a charge,  OH hey, I roast my own coffee, and sell it and green coffee too!!  Have a cup while you are waiting, lets shoot the bull and plan a ride somewhere or something !


Aaron

[Stonewolf]

I think you guys are missing the bigger issue here.

Things I don't need to pump gas:

• An account
• Phone signal
• Phone charge

A move towards making NACS and Superchargers the standard is a move away from being able to just rock up to a charging station, tap your credit card, and charge. It's a move towards not being able to just charge when you need it most (ie, in adverse conditions), and a move towards further corporate tracking (don't seem so concerned when it isn't the government Specter, do you?).

No credit card reader, no custom.

[DonTom]

I think you guys are missing the bigger issue here.

Things I don't need to pump gas:

• An account
• Phone signal
• Phone charge

A move towards making NACS and Superchargers the standard is a move away from being able to just rock up to a charging station, tap your credit card, and charge. It's a move towards not being able to just charge when you need it most (ie, in adverse conditions), and a move towards further corporate tracking (don't seem so concerned when it isn't the government Specter, do you?).

No credit card reader, no custom.

Yeah, some good points. I don't like to use my Smartphone at charge stations. We also cannot have too much sunlight and other issues. I prefer to use the cards. Even if a credit card. I don't like to use Electrify America unless they have a working credit card reader. They and Tesla do not have their own card, unlike most of the others.


And it was a hassle to activate the Tesla Supercharger with the Magic Doc in Placerville, CA.


But I always managed to get the job done when I had to use a Smartphone.


But a much bigger issue is to not be able to charge at all, because no chargers in the area you're trying to get to.


It's better to have to hassle with a Smartphone (mine is normally off and takes a while to boot up) than to have no charging available.


BTW, the best charging system of all is to use a Tesla Supercharger on a Tesla. Only one button to open your charge door by wireless, then plug in and walk away. Cannot be made any easier than that. Perhaps has a lot to do with why Tesla is the most common EV on the road.


-Don-  Reno, NV

[Specter]

Your smart phone is not off, because you pushed the off button.
You may like to think it's off but it's not.
Unless you totally remove the battery, which very few allow you to do anymore, it's NOT off.

Since you all are so worried about corporate tracking and all, so better update your Fakebook status for the 23rd time today about privacy and warn everyone,  but of course ONLY after you gave your 5 minute video tour of the new lay of the rug since you ran the automatic self tracking and navitgating vaccuum up the stairs, and warn about how someone can get your e mail address without your consent!  Ooh, I think Amazon has something for that, oh wait, they sent me a message, .. yep, they seen me typing this and let me know they Do have something, I just need to click the button and it'll be here tomorrow morning.  Seems the roomba was spying over my shoulder and Alexa can tell which keys I tapped by the unique signature each one makes and they knew what I needed before I even knew what I needed !!!

Still need an account to get gas after hours, it's called a Credit Card Account.  Unless you want to pre pay, so they can hold your money for you.  I will pretty much about guarantee that Tesla will probably jump on that bandwagon very quickly themselves, I mean what is NOT to like about being able to use other people's money, interest free!

By the way, you ARE aware that part of some of the anti fraud measures your credit card companies use is to ding your phone for a quick GPS location, to help verify you are actually AT that store that just rang up the 400 charge on your card right?

You are being tracked by EVERYONE, like it or not, and don't get all pissy about entity A .vs. entity B, because they all share the fkn data they got on you, or sell it to each other.

how those youtube uploads going?

Aaron

[Motoproponent]

Hey @Specter, where is "around here" that there arent many people or chargers. I'm always looking for destinations for an out of the way road trip.

As far as NACS and needing app, phone, and signal....if you have a tesla account (not necessarily the app, but maybe a desktop based Tesla dot com account) isn't part of the NACS handshake the vehicle ID?

So like you roll up, plug in and start charging? The billing and everything is done in the background based on your account settings from the handshake, right?

The payment collection hardware is a constant point of failure with current chargers and an easy target for angry ICE'ers. The supercharger design that eliminates that is a main reason for the Supercharger Network being the gold standard for useability and reliability.

[Specter]

Hey Buddy:

'Around here' would be North / NorthWest Jacksonville Florida.

There is a tesla super charger station, and if you look at some of the apps,  they show charging stations here and there but many of them are at like car dealers etc, so not totally public, it's in their service area etc.

There are a number of J-chargers but sadly, a good number of them have been reported as OOC.

Im half tempted to opena little coffee shop,  my home roasted coffee while you wait for your car to fast charge.  Maybe get a decent cook so  you can get some grub too, who knows!   I wonder how helpful the govt rebates really are and how hard they are to get.  Reading thru some of the pre requisites, it seems like unless you are in the smack dab middle of the hood or the desert, you probably don't qualify for much..

Aaron