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[Richard230]

That is the title of an AP article published in my newspaper yesterday. According to the article all Ford EVs, both current and future models, will have access to about 12K Supercharger stations in the U.S. and Canada, starting in the spring. There will be a cost to Ford owners, perhaps a monthly subscription, but no details have been released yet.

At first, Ford's current EVs will need an adapter to hook into Tesla stations, but Ford will switch to Tesla's NA Charging Standard connector with is ts second-generation EVs starting in 2025. They will join Ford's 10K Blue Oval charging network. Ford EV owners will be able to access all of the 17K Tesla chargers seamlessly with Ford's app, according to Elon Musk.

[Specter]

Waah  worthless fat bloated lazy UN innovative GM files anti monopoly lawsuit in  3....2.....1....

Sounds like a good idea, but I really HATE this whole concept of nobody owns anything anymore, it's all rented / leased / subscription etc.   I get it, elon needs to profit too and this IS a great idea but just another tether that makes one beholden to someone else.  Why not just I drive up, I use a CC and pay for it without having to subscribe?  You still get my money.

If elon was really smart, he'd sell the damned adapter as a subscription.  You pay 99 dollars for the plug adapter that fits between you and my charger, and 5 bucks a month for the subscription service, that way anyone and EVERYONE can use it, he taps the entire market and not just Ford.  It would also squash any potential anti trust suits too.

Aaron

[Richard230]

Waah  worthless fat bloated lazy UN innovative GM files anti monopoly lawsuit in  3....2.....1....

Sounds like a good idea, but I really HATE this whole concept of nobody owns anything anymore, it's all rented / leased / subscription etc.   I get it, elon needs to profit too and this IS a great idea but just another tether that makes one beholden to someone else.  Why not just I drive up, I use a CC and pay for it without having to subscribe?  You still get my money.

If elon was really smart, he'd sell the damned adapter as a subscription.  You pay 99 dollars for the plug adapter that fits between you and my charger, and 5 bucks a month for the subscription service, that way anyone and EVERYONE can use it, he taps the entire market and not just Ford.  It would also squash any potential anti trust suits too.

Aaron

I bet it wouldn't take long for the Chinese to copy the $99 plug adapter and sell it on eBay for $9.   

[Specter]

It's funny you said that Richard,  I just asked Setek  today if they had an adapter for that and their reply was, there'd be no money in it, that there's enough CCS chargers around to just find one.   Doesn't elon's charger need to see the cars serial number or some other dumb thing too to activate?  If he's in bed with ford, I can see that being baked in too.

Aaron

[DonTom]

there's enough CCS chargers around to just find one. 

What nonsense. No way can I ride my Experia to Susanville and back. But they do have a Tesla Supercharger there. No CCS.


And then there is Lake Topaz, NV. A great location for charging. But only Tesla Superchargers there. No CCS, no J-1772.


Many such places where they only have Tesla SC and nothing else.


-Don-  Reno, NV

[DonTom]

  Doesn't elon's charger need to see the cars serial number or some other dumb thing too to activate?

Just install the Tesla App on your Smartphone and select "Charge your NON-Tesla". A rather recent change and has quite a ways to go. But the Tesla Superchargers no longer need to read the VIN, except on Telsas. If you have the Tesla App., you can activate the SC after you set up your account as then they know who you are.


Since I already own a Tesla, I was ready to go (nothing more for me to set up) and have used the Magic Dock in Placerville, CA. But Tesla has a long way to go to get to them all.


-Don-  Reno, NV

[Richard230]

Now GM has jumped on the Tesla Supercharger bandwagon. They will join Ford in adopting Tesla as the standard for charging their future vehicles and even their current EVs once they can be updated with new charging connectors. The news media believes that the Tesla charging system will eventually be the new standard in the U.S. in the future according to news reports yesterday.

[NoMoreIdeas]

Now GM has jumped on the Tesla Supercharger bandwagon. They will join Ford in adopting Tesla as the standard for charging their future vehicles and even their current EVs once they can be updated with new charging connectors. The news media believes that the Tesla charging system will eventually be the new standard in the U.S. in the future according to news reports yesterday.

Honestly I think this is a great news, the NACS charge port design is far superior and much more thought out than the CCS standard (I cant believe that massive plug actually went through enough approvals to become a standard). Also independent CCS chargers have a terrible reliability track record and pulling up to a Tesla charger would give me a really good feeling that it was just going to work.

If Zero adopted this standard too, they would get a 11+kw feed out of the box instead of being capped at ~6.6 by Chargepoint just for L2 charging. That would be great for 12kw on board chargers. I couldn't find any documentation on the minimum voltage the Tesla fast chargers will accommodate, but Zero wouldn't need to change the connector to adopt DCFC later in the future if they found the superchargers could go that low, or they could somehow do a contactor arrangement to move from 28s4p to 112s only while charging.

[DonTom]

Honestly I think this is a great news,

Or could be bad news if Tesla SCs are not made compatible with the many CCS EVs we now have because of this new standard.


-Don-  Reno, NV

[Specter]

Personally, Id love to see the tesla chargers come with a 'change' so it has an additional cord for CCS-1 which IS the current standard in the USA.  Honestly the cord is what, 100 dollars IF that in bulk, and look at the market it would open up for him to use HIS product, and put the profits in HIS pockets!!

The CCS1 is so bulky because it was made to be an 'all in one' type thing.  Not the greatest, because once they throw the heavy current DC's onto the bottom, they still need the top for the comms!!.   This leaves the 2 to 3 AC plugs up there unused now.

Id LOVE to see a combo where you can get your DC fast charge, AND it's bringing in the AC thru the top part as well!!  Throw an extra 10 kw or whatever you can on top of the DC.  Then finish off with the AC as your trickle balance.  Either way all the extra 'stuff' is not wasted now and it does make your time there shorter! 

The only problem is nobody has settled on a 'world standard' comms protocol, which IMHO is what they ALL need to sit down and do.  Make a one size works anywhere, THEN each can go their way with what they wan't to do with their plug / brands form factor etc.

Eventually electric chargers will be everywhere but until they do, wouldn't you want YOUR brand, which is the most versatile, be the one that saturates the market?   My eyes are watering, give me a kleenex.  Ok I just named the BRAND NOT THE PRODUCT !!  I'd want that if I was the market guru.

Aaron

[Richard230]

Attached is an article explaining more about Ford and GM partnering with Tesla to use their charging station network. Page 1.

[Richard230]

Page 2.

[Specter]

The problem is, everyone else uses the CCS standard.  Does Tesla combine AC charging and DC in it's plug?  No? Well CCS does, which allows people to charge at home with a rather simple plug instead of having to shit out an extra 4 to 6k for a DC fast charger.  All this really does is play the forced obsolescence game with those who already bought products from Ford / GM and the likes.  GM shitting on it's customers is nothing new but still.
If you want to make the tesla plug the standard then fine, how about then, making the plug ON the vehicle a standard plug then where you just plug a damned standard electric extension cord in for your home AC charging and the vehicle takes care of the rest w/o all the BS of the Box and J plug then?

Aaron

[DonTom]

The problem is, everyone else uses the CCS standard.  Does Tesla combine AC charging and DC in it's plug?

Yes. I AC charge my Tesla at home with the same plug as their DC superchargers.


Telsa Destination stations (and Tesla Wall Connectors)  are the Tesla versions of the J-1772s. And most Tesla Destination stations are higher power than most J-1772. 12 and 14 KW AC charging is common with Tesla. Rare with J-1772. 8KW is the lowest Tesla AC stn I have ever seen used anywhere. There are some J-1772s that can only do 3 KW. And some with two plugs share the power.  However, there are 70-Amp (16.8 KW) J-plugs here. Very, very rare.


It looks like a standard was finally agreed on. I just hope they have a way for the older vehicles to use Tesla Superchargers. The Magic Dock idea is unlikely to get anywhere fast.


BTW, I have charged my Energica motorcycles with Tesla Wall Connectors, with one Tesla Supercharger (using the Magic Dock) and countless Tesla Destination stations  on the road. Same plug on all. Here is an example.  But I do need to use a Tesla-Tap with it. Note that I also charged my Zero SR at 8KW (the limit of the AC Tesla Destination Station they use there) just two days ago.


Here is another example. I use Tesla AC charging about as much as J-1772.


IMO, I may live to see the day when the Tesla connector is used on Energica motorcycles directly.


It's clear Tesla won this one. The most reliable charging network out there by far. Best maintained. They deserve to win this one.


-Don-  Reno, NV

[Specter]

At the end of the day the charging stations ideally will ALL use the same damned plugs, and just be fighting for your  business over features / price.  Just like you can pick what brand gasoline you use, it ALL is at the same standards and works the same way.

They have a Tesla charging station out here it has like 8 pull ins to charge at but all have the goofy tesla plug.  What would I need to plug that goofy plug into my energica?  I have not looked for 'magic dock' yet but so far have found pretty much nothing to go from Tesla to CCS-1 however plenty to charge your tesla, with CCS-1

Aaron