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[Specter]

What is the best way to lay down a bike if a wreck is immenent?  or is this something that is entirely situational?

So I am riding down the road at 60 mph, (the speed limit), and moron in pickup truck pulls out right in front of me, NOW decides to check for fucking traffic, I guess sees me coming then slow STOPS right there in the road, in my lane does not complete his turn onto my road.  Just basically parks in front of me, IN the road.

From my perspective, well I can't swerve in front of him, he's still moving, Ill just crash into his side in the other lane.  I can't go behind him because there's a 4 foot ditch over there and right by the road he's on, a concrete culvert, NOT something you want to ride into!!  Hit the brakes hard and try to control the bike now fishtailing a bit.  Fuck, nope im not going to stop in time, oh good he stopped, crap, steering is not good ...something in my little brain kicked in and i let off the brake enough to get steering back and managed to emergency dodge around him in front, my leg brushed his bumper on the way past.  bike still was not steering like I wanted to, although I am absolutely certain that is NOT a fault of the bike but probably a factor of me tensed up and my asshole drawing 30 inches of vacuum on my seat at this point, not allowing me to lean as much as I probably should have been TO steer.

I didn't stop afterwards, I was still rolling when I got past him, and back in my lane and no damage, so just kept going albeit a bit shaken up.

What if there was no way out?  Slamming face first into a truck is a bad day.  What if it was a semi truck, tractor trailer, THOSE you can slide under.  If it ever came to it, how Do you safely lay a bike down in an accident if you have the change to and have to?

Do you just let go and dive?,  lean real hard to the side and carry the bike with you?  slam the handlebar to the side and let it fall that way?  How would you lay a bike down as safe as possible?

I had my camera  rolling when I was riding.  (yah camera is new toy amd im playing with it).   Reveiwing the video, nope, asshole didn't look even once, and didn't even check traffic, did not look even once my way until AFTER he was crossing the lane, then probably just looked to see when to turn or something.

Anyone else ever been in a situation like this and what did you do to get out of it?  I understand that each situation is unique but looking for advice, or other methods in dealing with stuff like this, maybe there was something better I could have done, (and yes i did slow a bit coming to the intersection), just trying to learn here.

FWIW, even with big honking brakes on the front, 760 lbs of bike and passenger do NOT stop on a dime, contrary to what a lot of people love to think about bikes!!

Aaron

[DonTom]

What is the best way to lay down a bike if a wreck is immenent?  or is this something that is entirely situational?

So I am riding down the road at 60 mph, (the speed limit), and moron in pickup truck pulls out right in front of me, NOW decides to check for fucking traffic, I guess sees me coming then slow STOPS right there in the road, in my lane does not complete his turn onto my road.  Just basically parks in front of me, IN the road.

From my perspective, well I can't swerve in front of him, he's still moving, Ill just crash into his side in the other lane.  I can't go behind him because there's a 4 foot ditch over there and right by the road he's on, a concrete culvert, NOT something you want to ride into!!  Hit the brakes hard and try to control the bike now fishtailing a bit.  Fuck, nope im not going to stop in time, oh good he stopped, crap, steering is not good ...something in my little brain kicked in and i let off the brake enough to get steering back and managed to emergency dodge around him in front, my leg brushed his bumper on the way past.  bike still was not steering like I wanted to, although I am absolutely certain that is NOT a fault of the bike but probably a factor of me tensed up and my asshole drawing 30 inches of vacuum on my seat at this point, not allowing me to lean as much as I probably should have been TO steer.

I didn't stop afterwards, I was still rolling when I got past him, and back in my lane and no damage, so just kept going albeit a bit shaken up.

What if there was no way out?  Slamming face first into a truck is a bad day.  What if it was a semi truck, tractor trailer, THOSE you can slide under.  If it ever came to it, how Do you safely lay a bike down in an accident if you have the change to and have to?

Do you just let go and dive?,  lean real hard to the side and carry the bike with you?  slam the handlebar to the side and let it fall that way?  How would you lay a bike down as safe as possible?

I had my camera  rolling when I was riding.  (yah camera is new toy amd im playing with it).   Reveiwing the video, nope, asshole didn't look even once, and didn't even check traffic, did not look even once my way until AFTER he was crossing the lane, then probably just looked to see when to turn or something.

Anyone else ever been in a situation like this and what did you do to get out of it?  I understand that each situation is unique but looking for advice, or other methods in dealing with stuff like this, maybe there was something better I could have done, (and yes i did slow a bit coming to the intersection), just trying to learn here.

FWIW, even with big honking brakes on the front, 760 lbs of bike and passenger do NOT stop on a dime, contrary to what a lot of people love to think about bikes!!

Aaron

It been countless years since I took a M/C safety class or even read about such things, but IIRC, you NEVER purposely lay down the bike in any situation. When you do, you will lose all control over everything and who knows where your body will end up, perhaps under the truck tire of the truck that you were trying to avoid.


There are unavoidable saturations where you will crash, or will get dumped from the bike, but dumping the bike in advance is usually not a good idea, IIRC.


-Don-  Auburn, CA

[Specter]

I get you Don, and agree for the most part, but in a situation where there are no more escapes.  lets say a semi pulls in front of you, you either smack into the side of the thing, or possibly slide under it.  You get hurt either way  I am sure but would stand a better chance sliding under and clear of it, rather than slamming into it's side face first at 40 mph.  OR you end up under the wheels and die that way instead of blunt force 19 inches below the bullseye on the side of the target truck.  Maybe that was my day to die, but Id like to go out at least saying, well I tried... hell if you time it right, the bikes wheels hit your bike, which stops it before they hit you..... you just never know.

Aaron

[coolhand]

This is easy:

What do you think has the most stoping power: The tyres or plastic and metal....

Stay on the bike, brake as hard as you can, and pray.

Laying down the bike will most of the times do more harm (to you and/or the bike) than stopping by using brakes and tyres.

[Pard]

Scary ... glad you are intact.

We all have had moments like that.

Ride with the awareness that every car and every animal and every drop of oil on the surface is there to try and kill you.

Ride with your fingers and foot ready to apply max brake pressure to both brakes, at all times.  Hit something slow enough and you will be OK.  You may even miss it. 

First video is from yesterday, spotted a thin wire at neck height with not enough time to fully stop.

Other two are just typical drivers trying to kill me.  Brakes to stop will save your life.

I have had so many close calls.  Stay on the bike.

[Pard]

The other epiphany a close call gives is the realization that at some point all riders go down.

Wear all the gear all the time. 





Wear an airbag.

[DonTom]

I get you Don, and agree for the most part, but in a situation where there are no more escapes.  lets say a semi pulls in front of you, you either smack into the side of the thing, or possibly slide under it.  You get hurt either way  I am sure but would stand a better chance sliding under and clear of it, rather than slamming into it's side face first at 40 mph.  OR you end up under the wheels and die that way instead of blunt force 19 inches below the bullseye on the side of the target truck.  Maybe that was my day to die, but Id like to go out at least saying, well I tried... hell if you time it right, the bikes wheels hit your bike, which stops it before they hit you..... you just never know.

Aaron

It's better for the bike to hit first than it is for your body. You reduce the speed faster by braking until the last second than your body will which has no brakes. Your body just flies into the object faster. Dumping the bike does NOT stop anything from happening.


This is different from avoiding a head-on my driving off the road and the bike dumping you.  Then you dumped the bike involuntarily. Better than hitting head-on.



-Don-  Auburn, CA

[svelectric]

Good advice in here so far.  One thing that I didn't see, was riding at MAX 80% of what your riding ability is (thinking more in corners).  Keeping that 20% reserve for obstacle avoidance, braking, etc.  On a race track, sure go 100%, there's no worry about dim drivers.  On the road, like someone else mentioned, assume everyone is out to kill you.  Play the what if game.  What if that delivery van decides to pull out, etc. 

[Specter]

Thank you for the replies everyone.  FWIW I always wear full gear.  track Boots, kevlar pants, full riding gloves, they are track rated but im wearing them regular riding to break them in a bit as they are a bit stiff yet. leather danise jacket and a shoei full face helmet.  it's a bit hot but not bad once you get moving.  The helmet is worth every penny.  Already used it, crap on the road, a dump truck dropped a ..like a wedge or something of 2 x 4 bounced and bounced up, seen it coming but it was one of those things where you really couldn't avoid it, just watch like slo mo as this bitch comes at your face.  It hit the face shield scuffed the crap out of it and actually put a crack in it.  I got a new face plate which basically snapped right on, and have the old one as a souvenir to remind me every day, what do you think this would have done to  your face, or eye, had you NOT been wearing a helmet and it hit you at 60 plus MPH?  I wish we could mount rocket launchers on our bikes for these maggot bastard dump trucks constantly dropping crap on the roads!

Im seriously considering getting this airbag vest now.  Im torn between the alpine star vest and the I think dainese has a full jacket / airbag setup.  Thing is, I am also getting full track leathers too, with airbags in them, so am wondering, ok do I just get two, one reglar one thats a jacket only basically and then my track only and wear just the tops / OR the full suit when riding (which unfortunately tends to catch the attention of the po po).  I think alpine star has one that you can select track or street mode on it, which unfortunately it seems dainese has only track in their leathers.

Yah, ok I get it, it's FUN to feel the wind whipping thru your hair at 100 mph, but the pavement grinding at your crinkle tart at even 30 mph,  NOT FUN!! not to mention all the dirt, sand, little rocks and crap blowing on the street, even at 60 mph that shit can sting sometimes!   I see people all the time, glasses on, nothing else, riding.  It seems the harley riders are the most retarded bunch when it comes to safety gear, hell half of them are even too good for you to even wave back when you pass them, but it's funny watching their lips move every time they come to a stop sign

Hitting a deer, ok it's small- ish.... sort of, and sort of squishy.  Is that usually a full take down you are in the back of an ambulance or is that potentially surviveable with maybe a few scratches and goop all over you?  That is ONE thing we got plenty of, and they know how to hide real well till the last second.  I can't even begin to recount how many I plastered with the truck over the years, most the time slow nuff they skittered off, because I knew they were in the area, but then there's the shot where mom and yearling came out of nowhere right in front of me at 45, kaplow.... 10 grand damage to the silverado.  Holy crap chevy is proud of their plastic, but at least i got 120 lbs of venison out of the deal    Even with a 600 lb bike I know it's going to jerk you but is it a thrower for sure or maybe you manage to stay on?

Aaron

[Specter]

svelectric,  I am very careful on the bike, since I am new and all, I am well, sometimes a bit overly cautious around some corners.  People get mad when I slow but F them, im not dumping because some clown behind me is in a hurry, go ahead and pass already!

especially in the morning when it's cold out and the tires are cold, this thing can get kind of squirrely on rougher roads and especially around corners, you can feel it wiggling around and it's like oh F that, go S L O W, I don't need to dump on a blind 90 and have the next guy not paying attention come around and slam into me.  The fact that there is NO WAY E V E R, I am picking this bike back up all by myself, is another incentive to not dump it either.    that's a self sustained embarrassment I can do without thank you !

Im still learning how to corner properly, and lean into the turns etc etc, so go very conservatively around corners.  Yah ok, a seasoned vet may be able to take it at 30 mph,me, im staying under 20 for the most part.  I find that 15 to 18 mph around a 90 degree turn is a safe and comfortable speed for me right now.  Got good grip, tires not slipping (you can hear the sand etc under them slide when they do!!) VERY un nerving!  and if there is something unexpected like a big puddle, slop of mud, or someone dumped what looks like a wheelbarrel full of sand on the road, im still slow nuff that im not going to lowside on that!

slow and steady wins the race, and also helps you save face. 

Aaron

[Pard]

The Alpinestars tech air 5 is the most versatile in that it will fit under any leather track suit or under any street riding gear so long as there is enough room to fit the airbag vest and some room for it to inflate.

I have had airbag inflation from a lowside.  Very cool device.

There are also over the suit options that are very good such as helite.  Also very versatile.

https://helitemoto.com/motorcycle-1/

I have used their products and they are also excellent.  They offer mechanical and electronic deployment methods.

[Specter]

I have heard that some of the devices are subscription based, that you have to pay for yearly on them and if you don't or it runs out, the bag won't inflate in a wreck?

Is this actually true?  If so F that company, what a crock!!

Aaron

[Pard]

I have heard that some of the devices are subscription based, that you have to pay for yearly on them and if you don't or it runs out, the bag won't inflate in a wreck?

Is this actually true?  If so F that company, what a crock!!

Aaron

Alpinestars in not like that ... yet.

In&Motion is subscription.

https://www.inemotion.com/en/

There are pros and cons to each manufacturer and model.  Subscription is not so bad since you can reinstall an inflation cartridge's yourself.  Alpinestars has to be sent in as does Dianese.

[Specter]

I can understand having to send the vest / suit back in for a refill / reinspection after deployment.  People are idiots, and  the idiots  tend to also be sue crazy.  Oh I wrecked and shredded my shit, but I'll just duct tape a new cannister in it and it'll be fine. 
Then when it don't work on their next crash a week later because of the big hole tore in it from the last crash, WAAHHhhh im SUING !!!!!
See it all the time, lawyers literally run a whole industry on these idiots.  Watch TV during the Jerry Springer, Oprah, Maury hour and you'll see a whole parade of them. 
From a liability standpoint it makes a lot of sense, and also shows they are SERIOUS about their safety, AND reputation, because one of these morons launching the lawsuit will be all over the 5 o clock dirtbag news, and even though they are 100 percent in the right, it's still bad PR for the company, from the other idiots who's lips move when they read a stop sign who see the news blip about it.  It's a way for the company to try to control some stupidity that might otherwise drag them into the whirlwind.

Aaron

[jotjotde]

Concerning Airbag Vests may I point you towards an older thread in the General forum.

https://www.electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=12315.0

There are several vests available now and you should see which one suits your needs best.
I am using the Dainese Smart Jacket for my everyday driving. It activates at speeds higher 10 km/h and deactivates if speed is lower after 10-15 seconds.
I think it can detect if you're in stop-and-go-traffic, then it takes longer before deactivation after coming to a stop.