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[Stivikivi]

Could it be that Zero 2018 above have many problems with die Battery or BMS itself?

I own a Zero S from 2021 and I've got problems with the range.

Zero says 113kmh would last for 143km.

I have tested it and I only got 100km. With city 130 maximum.

I think that's not okay. What I noticed too at about 30% I lose 1% each 400-800 meters.
Above 30% I lose 1% each 1km - 1.5km.

Once I had a very strange moment. Drove 5km and paused for 3 minutes. Keyd the bike off. 33% was left. Keyd on 18%. Range left decreased as well. I came home with 0% and 3km range left. Not funny isn't it?

I already tried bms reset. Left button works. Right button nothing. Already tried to drive to 0% and charge to 100% 3-4 times. Nothing changed. Some say cell balancing can take up to 24 hours??

I could provide BMS and MBB logs if needed.

As far as I know the 2021 bikes had many problems with faulty bms. Just see FXE Models for example.

[mdjak1]

First question, what is the battery size?  Zero offered several different sizes during the 2018 model year and especially to the international market.

Edit:  I don't think a faulty BMS would lead to lack of range.   Just lack of charging.  And you say the battery is charging to 100%.

Keep in mind that pages 1.5 through 1.8 of the owners manual have details on range and the things that can effect range.   Range figures are typically under idea conditions and very difficult to achieve under normal conditions.

https://prismic-io.s3.amazonaws.com/zero-cms-disco/e39468f4-78ec-4a7e-9daf-ec9fd524b3ca_OM-SDS-MY18.pdf

[TheRan]

I would assume a 14.4, but they actually say 126km at 113km/h. I would say getting 100km in the real world (60 miles at 70mph for the non-metric) is a pretty good result, chances are it's not super warm at the moment where you're at (I'm guessing Germany by your use of die instead of the) and temperature can have a very big effect on range.

However losing range while the bike is off is very suspect, if anything you'd expect to gain a little bit as the battery recovers.

[Stivikivi]

Hey Guys

Yes it's a 14.4kwh battery.

Here a Screenshot from zero spy. I think AH has to be more. Like 126ah instead of 124ah.

I will build a cable to read out BMS directly too.

I have compared with other Zero S Riders in Germany they all got at least 180km range. I end up with 130km. My FXE 22 which I own before reaches 110km same drive habits. Which lead me to the point that the S with double battery capacity should reach 220km.

Onboard Charger isn't Really charging with 1300/1400w too.

[Stivikivi]

App shows 3.14kwh per 65km.

Battery capacity should be 12.6kwh. If we continue with the app I should reach 260km.

In real I needed 34% for 65km. Would be only around 195km maximum range.

[mdjak1]

Buy a meter that will measure the total energy consumption such as this:
https://54energy.net/products/digital-wattmeter-220v-110v-ac-power-meter-electricy-consumption-energy-meter-eu-plug-power-kilowatt-wattage-electricity-meter

Run the battery down to 0%.   Charge to 100%.   Find out how many kWh were input into the battery.  If it is close to the nominal battery rating, then your battery and BMS is probably fine and the lack of range is related to another issue.   If the reading it way lower than the nominal rating, then you have an issue with your battery.

[Stivikivi]

Buy a meter that will measure the total energy consumption such as this:
https://54energy.net/products/digital-wattmeter-220v-110v-ac-power-meter-electricy-consumption-energy-meter-eu-plug-power-kilowatt-wattage-electricity-meter

Run the battery down to 0%.   Charge to 100%.   Find out how many kWh were input into the battery.  If it is close to the nominal battery rating, then your battery and BMS is probably fine and the lack of range is related to another issue.   If the reading it way lower than the nominal rating, then you have an issue with your battery.

Alright I'll report.

Real usable capacity should be 12.6kwh right? So the Wattmeter should measure around 12.6kwh +-20%.

I think zero guarantee at least 80% capacity in the first 5 years. So 12.6kwh -20% should be at least 10.08kwh.

[victor6.7y]

Dear Stivikivi,

Could you share your avarage drive speed?
I think that has the biggest impact on your range.

I did a few range tests on the zero myself... That time I still tought the spec, 144km at 113km/h was usable.....
The Netherlands; where I drive is flat, I get about 120km-130km when I drive 100km/h.

Take note that the SOC on the dash does not run completely linear with your distance at a constant speed.

[Kappi]

Hi Victor,

you range figure sounds realistic. I get about the same at 100+ KP/h in flat northern Germany.
Regarding Zeros quality: My first two batteries had issues that manifested within 3k km and 500 km respectively. The third battery has been completely free of any issues for two years now.
Greetings Kappi

[Stivikivi]

Hey Guys,

I tested furthermore now but still haven't reached 0% yet. But soon.

What I noticed is

From 100% - 30%

110-115kmh on Dash 1% per 1.3-1.5km. Would do 130-150km
75-85kmh on Dash 1.7-1.9km. Would do 170-190km

But!

From 30% on I lost 1% per 0.3-0.9km. And since then it's not really the point if I ride 80kmh or 110kmh.

Second how exactly are the measurements in the app?

I drove 95km total have 49% left and the app says 4.63kwh used. Would be 190km total with 0% left and 9.26kwh used. But my battery should have 12.6kwh.

So does the app lie? Soon I can tell how much the Wattmeter says when I charge from 0-100%

[Specter]

and THIS is the problem when bikes report 'range left', nobody is ever happy OR SURE!!

Range estimates get complicated.  Now that you don't drive the same way every day.  The temperature is not the same, the wind is not the same, the road conditions are not the same.  The speed is up there a bit, THAT is not friendly for range either.

If it is biasing battery voltage in it's determination of range, yes the last quartile is going to drop fast, because there is not a lot of energy density down there as in kw / volt of terminal drop.

Also, as you get lower in volts-power left a specific current draw is going to create a larger voltage drop on the terminal voltage, so if it's calculating range left on the fly and not at standstill, then yes this is going to drop it harder because your under load voltage drop is going to be more.  Also-  Remember, as an example -  at full charge you may be at 330 volts, and pull 100 amps to do 60 mph.  at 30 percent charge - your voltage may be at 285 volts and you are pulling more like 125 amps now for the same 'power' to the motor.  That extra 25 amps is going to lower terminal voltage, to make it look like a lower SOC on the battery hence lower range.

As I said, things can get complicated.

Driving highway speeds like that, if you are getting 1 to 1.5 mi  per percent charge, you are doing good.

If you drive pretty much the same way all the time, for example you drive back and forth to work every day.  Make sure you got a full charge, run it down, see how long it lasts, and that is about your range.  Just watch miles from that point or watch your SOC rather than it's calculated range left.    Trying to keep track of what it reports as 'range left' is only going to end up giving you an aneurism..

Aaron

[Stivikivi]

I did it.
0% Heavy cell balance

Now I will measure how much goes into the battery and hopefully better Balance after that. Lowest cell was at 3218..

[victor6.7y]

Dear Stivikivi,

I would not really trust anything the app says except the current voltage.
When charging at a charging point I also noticed that my bike keeps drawing about 1 KW/h even when the battery is fully charged, not sure why. but it does mean that I’m unable to use a public charger to determine the amount of power that went in the battery if I don’t check when the bike reaches 100%

To check if my battery is still okey I usually check the Discharge level of the logs. There is a "AH" counter. When charging the bike and driving it to 0% on the dash (this gives about 5% SOC), the AH counter should be about 111 AH? (110 x 100V = 11 100 KWh)


 07855     04/30/2023 12:07:31   Discharge level            107 AH, SOC:  8%, I:179A, L:3233, l:3414, H:3290, B:057, PT:028C, BT:027C, PV:91661, M:Bike On
 07859     04/30/2023 12:07:31   Discharged To Low          107 AH, SOC:  6%,         L:3252,         H:3302, B:050, PT:028C, BT:027C, PV:92026
 07860     04/30/2023 12:08:31   Discharge level            108 AH, SOC:  7%, I:-16A, L:3409, l:3455, H:3424, B:015, PT:029C, BT:028C, PV:95716, M:Bike On
 07864     04/30/2023 12:09:31   Discharge level            109 AH, SOC:  6%, I:014A, L:3397, l:3459, H:3411, B:014, PT:029C, BT:028C, PV:95361, M:Bike On
 07868     04/30/2023 12:10:31   Discharge level            109 AH, SOC:  6%, I:035A, L:3383, l:3455, H:3398, B:015, PT:029C, BT:028C, PV:94985, M:Bike On 
 07872     04/30/2023 12:11:31   Discharge level            110 AH, SOC:  6%, I:027A, L:3382, l:3449, H:3398, B:016, PT:029C, BT:028C, PV:94967, M:Bike On 
 07876     04/30/2023 12:12:31   Discharge level            110 AH, SOC:  5%, I:-17A, L:3414, l:3446, H:3427, B:013, PT:029C, BT:028C, PV:95797, M:Bike On
 07880     04/30/2023 12:13:31   Discharge level            110 AH, SOC:  5%, I:001A, L:3411, l:3446, H:3422, B:011, PT:029C, BT:028C, PV:95699, M:Bike On
 07884     04/30/2023 12:14:31   Discharge level            111 AH, SOC:  5%, I:001A, L:3420, l:3443, H:3431, B:011, PT:029C, BT:028C, PV:95971, M:Bike On 
 07888     04/30/2023 12:15:31   Discharge level            111 AH, SOC:  5%, I:001A, L:3423, l:3441, H:3434, B:011, PT:029C, BT:028C, PV:96054, M:Bike On 
 07892     04/30/2023 12:15:55   Contactor was Opened       Pack V: 96076mV, Switched V: 96019mV, Prechg Pct: 100%, Dischg Cur: 948mA
 07893     04/30/2023 12:15:56   System Turned Off   



The biggest Take away is probably the same as Aaron mentioned. SOC and Range indication aren't an exact science; simply because you cannot predict the future.

For me the bike is quite reliable. When I drive a specific route the SOC usage is usually about the same (a deviation of 5% of SOC on the dash). This holds unless there are strong winds or temperature differences.

So when you know your daily route, and you still have 15% left. You can be quite sure to usually make it. (Disclamer, this is my experiance tho)