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[domingo3]

These two are very close in price and claimed range according to specs.  I don't really care about the bells and whistles; I just want to do 90 miles round trip commute at 70 MPH.   

Is the battery chemistry different/better for the "new" SR that I could expect it to perform better in the long run?
I had a hard time finding the range spec for the DSR+PT, but I think it's claimed 97 vs SR+Cyber Store of 93 miles?  Since these are both from Zero, are they both equally accurate or optimistic?
I haven't ridden a power tank model.  I know it will feel more top heavy, but don't think I'll notice much going in a straight line.

I don't like that Zero killed the original SR and prefer that over the DSR. I've read that the Gen 3 bikes are more susceptible to water intrusion than Gen 2.  Are there any other reasons that I'm missing that would swing towards a DSR+PT?

Thank you.

[TheRan]

One thing to note is the extra 10% on an SR is by overcharging the battery (just beyond what Zero chooses to charge it to by default, not over what it's actually specified for) and you have to choose it on the dash every time you put it on charge. Forget to do so and you don't get it, and people have also reported that the last little bit of charging can take a very long time. You're still "only" going to have 15.3kW/h of capacity, versus around 18kW/h with a DSR and PT. Even adding a PT to your 13kW/h SR would up it to 16.6kW/h, any reason why you haven't considered that? Also it would be a bit more hassle but you could even upgrade yours to 14.4kW/h and then add the PT and it would still work out a lot cheaper an option, especially if you sold the old pack.

[mdjak1]

Do you have any possibility of being able to charge after the first half of your 90 mile round trip?   

Even a 14.4 kWh bike like my 2018 SR with charge tank will do close to that total 90 mile trip.   My wife and I have ridden 2-up 57 miles from our house to a destination and still had about 35% remaining.   To return home, we charged up to about 75% for 30 minutes using a public charger near the destination.   

Point being that a normal 14.4 DSR has a range of close to 80 miles @70 mph.    If you ride 45 miles to work, can plug in to even a 110v outlet for an hour or so, you would easily be able to get back home.   

I would much rather have level 2 charging on my bike as an option versus a power tank.   

[Richard230]

I have a 2018 S with PT and I would say that traveling 90 miles at a continuous 70 miles an hour would be pushing your luck. Recharging the battery would take 12-15 hours at 120V. If you could stay around an actual 60 mph, that would work, but once the SOC gets down to around 25%, the performance is going to be degraded somewhat.

[domingo3]

One thing to note is the extra 10% on an SR is by overcharging the battery (just beyond what Zero chooses to charge it to by default, not over what it's actually specified for) and you have to choose it on the dash every time you put it on charge. Forget to do so and you don't get it, and people have also reported that the last little bit of charging can take a very long time. You're still "only" going to have 15.3kW/h of capacity, versus around 18kW/h with a DSR and PT. Even adding a PT to your 13kW/h SR would up it to 16.6kW/h, any reason why you haven't considered that? Also it would be a bit more hassle but you could even upgrade yours to 14.4kW/h and then add the PT and it would still work out a lot cheaper an option, especially if you sold the old pack.

I've read that it's not recommended to mix old and new batteries.  The battery I have is getting old and tired for doing extended highway runs and will just get older and 'tireder'.  I don't feel like spending $3k on a power tank would give me that much life extension.  I'm not sure the cost of a 14.4 kW/h pack and PT plus install, but I'm guessing around $12k?  That's definitely cheaper than $21k.  Also cheaper for crazy CA tax and insurance.  I haven't paid too much attention to longer term maintenance costs, but have read about wheel bearings and forks going bad.  Do you know anything about other long term costs?  It's something to think about, but would want to get more informed about potential costs of other things failing.

[domingo3]

Do you have any possibility of being able to charge after the first half of your 90 mile round trip?   

Even a 14.4 kWh bike like my 2018 SR with charge tank will do close to that total 90 mile trip.   My wife and I have ridden 2-up 57 miles from our house to a destination and still had about 35% remaining.   To return home, we charged up to about 75% for 30 minutes using a public charger near the destination.   

Point being that a normal 14.4 DSR has a range of close to 80 miles @70 mph.    If you ride 45 miles to work, can plug in to even a 110v outlet for an hour or so, you would easily be able to get back home.   

I would much rather have level 2 charging on my bike as an option versus a power tank.

I have a 2018 S with PT and I would say that traveling 90 miles at a continuous 70 miles an hour would be pushing your luck. Recharging the battery would take 12-15 hours at 120V. If you could stay around an actual 60 mph, that would work, but once the SOC gets down to around 25%, the performance is going to be degraded somewhat.

I pretty much have to charge at work right now, though I do it unofficially.  On the worst of days (cold, wet, headwind), I have to go significantly under the speed limit.  On warm days, I can make it one way easily while going with the flow of traffic.  My employer hasn't committed to an EV charging plan.  Demand for charging far outstrips supply, so it's a free-for-all now.  If all the charging stations are full for a day or I lose the ability to charge at work altogether, I'd like to be able to have the option to go slower like Richard mentioned, and not risk getting stuck.

[mdjak1]

If you are currently charging at work off 110v and decide to get a 6 kW charge tank, then even if you are completely locked out of level 2 charging by other vehicles taking all the chargers, you can always fall back to 110v slow charging.   In reality, a Zero on a level 2 charger shouldn't need to be there much more than an hour anyway.    It isn't like you need to charge from 0 to 95% in your situation.   

[electrictwowheeler]

If you get a bike that barely makes your trip you will be cycling the battery almost 100% every day. What do you do when you lose 5% of capacity? Or when it is 40 degrees, and your range is reduced? You will have to charge at some point during the day. If you are trying to avoid that why not get a bike that can do 120% of the milage you need? That way you could do the 90 miles a day for many years before the range dropped to 90 miles. You might pay more now but the battery will last allot longer! An Energica SS9 would probably work. I test rode one recently and liked it. Maybe someone with an SS9+ can chime in

[domingo3]

If you get a bike that barely makes your trip you will be cycling the battery almost 100% every day. What do you do when you lose 5% of capacity? Or when it is 40 degrees, and your range is reduced? You will have to charge at some point during the day. If you are trying to avoid that why not get a bike that can do 120% of the milage you need? That way you could do the 90 miles a day for many years before the range dropped to 90 miles. You might pay more now but the battery will last allot longer! An Energica SS9 would probably work. I test rode one recently and liked it. Maybe someone with an SS9+ can chime in

I don't plan to ride without charging at work, but would feel better knowing I wasn't dependent on it.

I was considering the SS9, but it's hard to get a straight answer about it's range.  Energica advertises 130 miles of "extra urban" riding, but doesn't say what that is. Just yesterday, someone posted in am Energica group that they get 70 miles at 70 mph with their 21.5 SS9. Even if that' estimate is on the low side, itt doesn't sound like that bike would give more cushion than one of the Zero options.

[DonTom]

I don't plan to ride without charging at work, but would feel better knowing I wasn't dependent on it.

I was considering the SS9, but it's hard to get a straight answer about it's range.  Energica advertises 130 miles of "extra urban" riding, but doesn't say what that is. Just yesterday, someone posted in am Energica group that they get 70 miles at 70 mph with their 21.5 SS9. Even if that' estimate is on the low side, itt doesn't sound like that bike would give more cushion than one of the Zero options.

On electric motorcycles, IMAO, it is best to ignore all range claims from anybody anywhere and use 7 miles (11km) per KWH for useable KWH capacity for an average range estimate. From there, add some range when going extra slow and subtract range when going extra fast. Also, consider stuff such as hills, wind direction vehicle total weight, etc. to make adjustments. So the Energica 21.5 battery has a useable capacity of around 19 KWH. 19 KWH times seven miles=133 miles average range. You will often get better as well as worse than that. The best way to increase range is by riding slow.


Notice my method for range is very close to Energica's "extra ubran" claim. FWIW, I also think Energica's names for range are stupid. I wish electric motorcycles would use the Tesla method. Only mention range for 65 mph, level ground, no wind.  But my times seven idea works well, IMO, for the starting point for any electric motorcycle.


You can figure out charge times a similar way. No need for them to mention minutes or hours. Just use simple math.


-Don-  Auburn, CA

[Specter]

For what its worth.  If I am doing 70 MPH on my Ribelle, which I believe is the same power train  / battery pack as the SS9, I can easily get 100 miles on the battery.   Extra Urban, I never understood the wording either, just say you are on the gd highway already.  Yah at 70 plus MPH it eats range down.  Ive done way over 70 mph and squeezed 100 miles out of my battery.  When I am in stop and go traffic or more 'city ish' driving like 45 mph or so, I can get about 140 miles out of the battery.  I think the SS9 would do very well for what you need.

Aaron

[domingo3]

Thanks for sharing that.  If you ride in cold weather, what's been your experience with how much that impacts range and performance?  It doesn't get too cold where I live - lows don't get more than a couple degrees below freezing.  I'm sure newer batteries do better than my 2016, but am curious how much so.

For what its worth.  If I am doing 70 MPH on my Ribelle, which I believe is the same power train  / battery pack as the SS9, I can easily get 100 miles on the battery.   Extra Urban, I never understood the wording either, just say you are on the gd highway already.  Yah at 70 plus MPH it eats range down.  Ive done way over 70 mph and squeezed 100 miles out of my battery.  When I am in stop and go traffic or more 'city ish' driving like 45 mph or so, I can get about 140 miles out of the battery.  I think the SS9 would do very well for what you need.

Aaron

[Richard230]

Thanks for sharing that.  If you ride in cold weather, what's been your experience with how much that impacts range and performance?  It doesn't get too cold where I live - lows don't get more than a couple degrees below freezing.  I'm sure newer batteries do better than my 2016, but am curious how much so.

For what its worth.  If I am doing 70 MPH on my Ribelle, which I believe is the same power train  / battery pack as the SS9, I can easily get 100 miles on the battery.   Extra Urban, I never understood the wording either, just say you are on the gd highway already.  Yah at 70 plus MPH it eats range down.  Ive done way over 70 mph and squeezed 100 miles out of my battery.  When I am in stop and go traffic or more 'city ish' driving like 45 mph or so, I can get about 140 miles out of the battery.  I think the SS9 would do very well for what you need.

Aaron

I once got 140 miles out of my Zero's "nominal" 16.6 kWh battery pack, but that was being very careful about my travel and riding an average of 35-40 mph. For my model Zero claimed 103 miles at 70mph. Frankly, I doubt all of their performance claims. Attached is the specification chart for both the 2017 and 2018 Zero models. Kind of unbelievable. But at least the 2017 claims seem a little more realistic than the 2018 specifications