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[Pard]

Cannot compare to stock Energica wheels, bike was ordered w/ OZ wheels.

Suspect the benefit of lighter wheels is better bike stability under rough road conditions when braking more-so than any handling improvement given the weight of bike is the dominant (non-desired) attribute to handling.

Thanks for sharing the info on tire changers...been wanting to get one and liking the unit suggested.

Thanks.

That machine is significantly easier to use and a smaller footprint compared to the no mar machine which used to be the only game in town.

https://www.nomartirechanger.com/

[smithy]

This tire changer is amazing.  Easy to use and gives you the freedom to change tires yourself, whenever you wish.  Pays for itself in no time.

http://www.olmaxmotors.pl/

I have this one in my shed....makes tyre changing a doddle..

Smithy.

[Pard]

^^^  Now, that is the way!  AWESOME!

[Demoni]

The Energica has so much torque available at any speed, I wonder if I will appreciate the difference on the road in terms of acceleration and braking feel.  The massive weight of the bike may mask the benefits.

@PWM, can you describe what lighter wheels did for your experience on the Energica?

Suspension and wheel upgrades, although expensive are the best places to spend money if you want to improve how a bike feels and performs. Investing in track time and coaching on the other hand are the best options if you want to "go faster".

I have been fortunate to put a number of miles on Energica bikes outfitted with 5 different wheel sets: Stock, OZ spoked (heavier than stock), OZ forged 5 spoke (Piega), Marchesini forged 7 spoke (M7RR Genesi) and the BST carbon 5 spoke.
The difference between the stock wheels and the 2 forged offerings is noticeable although not dramatic. Most noticeable under hard acceleration and when transitioning from side to side (canyon carving). Due to the lower sprung mass they also let the bikes suspension work better due to the lower unsprung weight. I also get more feedback from the tires when in corners, suspect this is to to the wheels being stiffer.

Carbon wheels on the other hand transform the bike. Everything feels more lively and involving. They turn an already fast EMCE Ribelle RS into a WEAPON! In sport mode the bike demands your full attention, the front wheel likes to float off the ground on corner exit. Overall the bike just feels snappier even at lower speeds.

Due to the bikes overall weight lighter wheels do not seem to cause the bike to become unstable or twichy. I have a set of magnesium Marchesini wheels on my 300lb Ducati and it's an order of magnitude less stable. When riding if you sneeze you may find yourself in another lane.

[Pard]

^^^ Excellent writeup @Demoni .  Appreciate the first hand experience.

[Pard]

Going to be testing out some different tires.

I have two different sets in my garage.  I change my own tires so back to back tests are easy enough.

https://www.mitas-moto.com/en/products/motorcycle-on-road-tires/motorcycle-sport-tires/sport-force-plus-ev

https://www.michelinman.com/motorcycle/tires/michelin-power-gp

I get all my tires from this vendor.  He is really great to work with and very knowledgeable.

https://www.motorace.com/

Some interesting data on stock wheel weight.

Stock front Cast Wheel with both rotors in place:                                      21.5 lbs
Stock rear  cast wheel with rotor in place, sprocket and carrier removed:   18.2 lbs

Sport Touring Tires are heavy.  The Rosso 3 is a heavy tire:
Rosso 3 front:    10.1 lbs
Rosso 3 rear:     14 lbs

The Mitas sport force Plus is also a heavy tire.  Different profile than the Pirelli.  Will see if I like them after test ride tomorrow.

Mitas front: 10.3  lbs
Mitas rear:   15.2 lbs

A pure performance hypersport tire such as the Michelin  Power GP is lighter by far:

GP front: 9   lbs
GP rear:  12  lbs

Dunlop Q5s
Front:  9.6 lbs
Rear:  14lbs

That is a lot of weight difference rotating at the furthest point from the center of the wheel creating the greatest gyroscopic effect.  Lighter tires matter.

[Specter]

So, having tires this much lighter, what does this do to you at slower speeds?  What can you expect performance wise?  What will change, for good or bad?

Aaron

[Pard]

So, having tires this much lighter, what does this do to you at slower speeds?  What can you expect performance wise?  What will change, for good or bad?

Aaron

You will not feel any difference at slow speed.  These minute differences become apparent at high speed  and when transitioning side to side.

Here is an example.  I tested the Mitas tires today.  I thought I would hate them because of their weight, but I was wrong.  I like them very much.

At slow speed, they feel like the Rosso 3s as far as anyone would be able to tell.

At speed, I like the way the Mitas tires handle on the road.  Ran them at 39/39 psi.

The profile is sharper than the Rosso 3s, providing a quicker transition to the side of the tire, which is a real benefit on the heavy Energica.   Fast to get in an out of lean, stable at lean.

The rosso 3 is a more consistent feel but a slower feel when rolling side to side, in and out of lean.

The Mitas is very stable on the side of the tire, (as is the rosso 3)  with a confidence inspiring amount of grip in front even when pushed pretty hard into trail braking corners.  A bit more grip to my feel than the rosso 3.  Subjective.

The rear is predictable and stable at lean allowing me to get on the throttle without worry when exiting a corner.  Feels gripier on exit as well compared to rosso 3.

Braking is solid, with good feedback through the tire into the hands.

Cruising along the tire runs very quietly and smoothly.

Well designed tire. 

Would buy these tires again over a Rosso 3 for the handling feel and the perception of better grip for my style of riding.

If you want a more stable handling tire, the Rosso 3 would be my pick.

Next up in the test is the Power GPs.

[Demoni]

So, having tires this much lighter, what does this do to you at slower speeds?  What can you expect performance wise?  What will change, for good or bad?

Aaron

You will not feel any difference at slow speed.  These minute differences become apparent at high speed  and when transitioning side to side.

Actually reducing the weight of your tires will improve performance at low speeds. However that improvement might not be noticeable, due to the weight saved being only a small percentage of the total wheel mass.
Reducing the weight of your wheels has a few impacts:

• Lowering the total weight of the bike - Lighter objects require less force to accelerate or decelerate a specific amount.
• Reducing unsprung weight - Unsprung weight is the total weight of the bike components (wheels, calipers, lower fork tube etc.) that act on the suspension. Lowering this can improve how your suspension works especially in small bump compliance.
• Reduced rotating weight - It requires less force to change the speed of a lighter spinning mass. In addition a spinning mass creates a stabilizing gyroscopic effect that resists changes to its axis of rotation. Reducing the spinning mass reduces this effect, this makes it easier to change a bikes direction.
• Reduced Moment of inertia - Removing weight from the perimeter of a spinning object will have a greater effect vs removing the same weight from it's center.

Article related to MoI
https://blog.brocksperformance.com/bst-the-effects-of-inertia/

Video demonstration of 2 wheels that weight the same but have different MoI


Article related to Unsprung weight
https://www.cycleworld.com/fundamentals-unsprung-weight/

 

[Pard]

^^^  Excellent info!

[Pard]

This is also a good explanation:

"Every ounce at the edge of a 17" rim takes 25 lbs of force to change direction at 100 mph. Work is defined as force over time.

Doing the math >>> 16 ounces in one pound equals 400 lbs of force if it takes the rider one second to change direction at 100 mph if the wheel is a single pound lighter. The OZ wheels are several pounds lighter than oem. Many people talk about a bike being easier to turn but most of those people can't really provide what that means. One the street is is very hard to tell the difference.

At an expert-level club racer pace on a 2.5 mile track a carbon wheel (VERY LIGHT) saves only 1/2 of a second per lap over a stock cast wheel - I have personally done this test comparing a 2017 GSX-R1000R race bike with stock cast wheels vs. BST carbon wheels on the same day using tires with the same compound and pressures >>>> only 1/2 a second difference!

What is more useful info for most people is the fact that over the day a rider is doing a lot more work on the heavier wheels so at the end of the day you might be more tired on stock wheels versus lighter forged or similar wheels.

If you are a street rider lighter wheels are for show, on track if you get tired after 5 sessions getting a set of lightweight wheels will let you do that 6th or even 7th session and feel the same amount of worn out as you would expect to feel after 5 sessions. Hope this helps."

https://www.1000rr.net/threads/oz-gass-rs-a-forged-wheels.260302/page-2#post-4326806

[PWM]

If you are a street rider lighter wheels are for show...

Indeed, and easier to clean, e.g. OZ option.

Good thread!

[Pard]

Tom Huff, Director  of Sales North America, Energica, was kind enough to send me over this attached table.

[Specter]

Sounds a lot like beekeeping.
You can ask 10 different people a question about their bees.

You will get 15 different answers.
Everyone of them correct in their presentation and application.

How does that apply to YOU and YOUR bees??

Aaron

[Pard]

^^^ Indeed!