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[EdgarZero]

*** Throttle loss*** Zero S 2013
Hi friends, hope you are all right. I’m asking for your help, please.

I’m experiencing a loss of throttle in the middle of any ride, suddenly. Sometimes I can still accelerate slowly and other times I can’t accelerate at all. The bike reduces its velocity, then throttle comes back, sometimes with full power and sometimes with little power. Regen is also lost when throttle disappears.

There is not any error code at all in the dash and the green light is always on.

This does not happen at the beginning of the ride. It happens 5 to 10 minutes after the start.

I will retrieve the logs and see if I can find anything there.
Thanks a lot! Have safe and fun rides!

[Floki]

This sounds similar to a problem I had with my new FXE. It was caused by overtightened zip ties around the wire harness breaking a connection in the ignition switch. Cured by loosening the zip ties and replacing the ignition.

Here’s the thread:

https://www.electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=12211.msg115169#msg115169

[EdgarZero]

Thanks, Floky. But I think your bike lost power but completely right? (Completely "dead", no lights or dash, etc ,as in key off). Am I right?  Mine just loses throttle and everything else stays "normal". 

[DonTom]

*** Throttle loss*** Zero S 2013
Hi friends, hope you are all right. I’m asking for your help, please.

I’m experiencing a loss of throttle in the middle of any ride, suddenly. Sometimes I can still accelerate slowly and other times I can’t accelerate at all. The bike reduces its velocity, then throttle comes back, sometimes with full power and sometimes with little power. Regen is also lost when throttle disappears.

There is not any error code at all in the dash and the green light is always on.

This does not happen at the beginning of the ride. It happens 5 to 10 minutes after the start.

I will retrieve the logs and see if I can find anything there.
Thanks a lot! Have safe and fun rides!

This could be a problem with the motor and therefore, the commissioning being way off.   You probably should stop riding the bike, it can be dangerous.


This is too close to what Shadow (member and moderator of this forum, but too busy with other stuff lately) experienced a few years ago with his 2016 Zero DS. First symptom was no regen. Second symptom was a throttle that would not respond correctly. Third symptom was when the bike almost killed him when it went to WOT and the kill button wouldn't work. He had to turn off the key to stop the bike. I know about it because I called the tow truck for him. We had it towed to the shop with a note on the key "DO NOT RIDE!" and a short explanation. We had it towed there in the middle of the night when the shop was closed. After a new motor and Commissioning adjustments, all was fine.


-Don-  Reno, NV

[EdgarZero]

Hi Don. Thanks for the info, and even more for the advice. Won't ride the bike until it's fixed. I will check the logs and stuff next week and let you guys know.

[Tony]

Probably not related, but I noticed my SR/F wont be able to accelerate as fast once the remaining battery charge is under a certain treshold. It is mostly noticeable at high speeds, while acceleration at low speed seem less affected.

[EdgarZero]

Hi, friends. These are the error lines from the logs, I think:

00058 02/26/2023 05:32:37 SEVCON CAN EMCY Frame Error Code: 0x5000, Error Reg: 0x40, Sevcon Error Code: 0x46C2, Data: 00 00 00, Unknown

00065 02/26/2023 05:34:48 SEVCON CAN EMCY Frame Error Code: 0x4000, Error Reg: 0x48, Sevcon Error Code: 0x4602, Data: 07 3A 39, Unknown

00068 02/26/2023 05:36:04 SEVCON CAN EMCY Frame Error Code: 0x0000, Error Reg: 0x40, Sevcon Error Code: 0x4602, Data: C2 46 8E, Unknown

I also took a screenshot from the temperatures in the app, while riding, when the throttle failure happened. I think they are ok.

Thanks a lot for your time.

[EdgarZero]

This is what I have found about error 0x4602:

0x4602 Device too hot The controller (or motor?) is too hot; reduce power to cool it down; check cooling fin bracket

Any idea of what to do next??

Thanks

[DonTom]

This is what I have found about error 0x4602:

0x4602 Device too hot The controller (or motor?) is too hot; reduce power to cool it down; check cooling fin bracket

Any idea of what to do next??

Thanks

Are you located in a hot area?  Could anything be blocking the air flow to the motor controller?  Is it really getting hot?


Or could it be overheating because of a motor problem? Check for things like brake drag too, anything that could overload the motor.


-Don-  Reno, NV

[EdgarZero]

I cleaned the cooling fins of the motor, there was a lot of dust in the clefts.

I'm not sure of how the cooling mechanism of the controller works, but will check it out.

Update coming.

[DonTom]

I cleaned the cooling fins of the motor, there was a lot of dust in the clefts.

I'm not sure of how the cooling mechanism of the controller works, but will check it out.

Update coming.

The motor controller fins are ABOVE your rear wheel. The top of the controller is under your seat near the rear. Much higher than your motor.


The motor controller can get junk kicked up on it from the rear wheel. Make sure those fins are clean. You also may want to make sure there are no loose bolts on top. Lift seat, look under some thin cardboard.  You can tell where the top of the controller is from looking above the rear wheel by seeing its bottom fins.   There are five bolts with cables attached.  Two with cables from the HV battery to power the controller and three cables from the controller going to the motor to run the 3-phase motor. Keep key out, or there is HV in that area.


-Don-  Reno, NV

[EdgarZero]

Thanks a lot, Don.

I cleaned the fins of the controller. Also checked the bolts in the top of the controller and found that the M2 is partially melted, and also a little of the controller top. Almost sure this is the source of the overheating error from the logs.

I read in the unofficial zero manual that there can be short cuts between the M terminals in the controller and the aluminum plate of it because of isolation faults. I also read a method to check this up, testing the continuity between the terminals and the heatsink plate.

Do you think is a good idea to do so? Or maybe the controller is completely defective by this time and should be replaced? Or maybe the problem is the motor.

I attached the photos of how the controller looks.
Thanks a lot for your help.

[DonTom]

Your M2 bolt connection melt can either be because that bolt was a bit loose or else the motor was drawing too much current. It does show there is a problem. If that bolt was/is tight, then it looks like something is wrong with the motor.


-Don-  Reno, NV

[DonTom]

After taking a closer look, I would remove that bolt and washer, clean it all, and put it back together. That could have been your entire problem, if that bolt was loose or had a bad connection. It's VERY high current there when riding, so that can be the problem. Make sure it is tight, but not so tight that the bolt is stretched. I hear those are special low resistance bolts. Do not replace with other types of bolts. If you can find a torque spec on those bolts, be sure to use it (I have not looked).


Good luck.


-Don-  Reno, NV

[EdgarZero]

Thanks again, Don. Well, I think the bolt was not tight enough because the terminal of the cable could me moved a bit by hand (it was not firm enough). My only doubt is if that was the origin of the problem or the result of the melting.

I will proceed to clean everything and put back together. I hope I can find a replacement for the bolt. I'm pretty sure there is a torque spec, I read about it in the unofficial manual.

Will let you know. Have a great day.