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[DonTom]

I was referring to a ChargePoint station, the kind where it has two plugs for EVs and you present either a credit card or a ChargePoint account card to the reader to use it. I'm aware its a source of AC. I don't think they are the source of the problem I'm having. Maybe wrong. There are two different stations there and it happens with both of them.

I think the reason I see the problem at those Chargepoints at work, and not at home, because they tell the bike to pull 56A, instead of the 36 I get with the Webasto at my house. I think the problem occurs at higher currents only. At least for now. Maybe it gets worse before I get a chance to work with it. Im guessing if I had Level 2 charger in my garage capable of 56A I would see the same problem at home.

A ChargePoint with two cables can either be a fast DC charger (CCS plus CHAdeMO) or a slow AC (J-1772) charger. But I now see I am in the Zero Forum, which means you can only charge with AC input to the bike. 56 amps at 240 VAC is 7KW. What type of charging configuration does your bike have? Most, but not all Charge points can do 7KW. But to be sure, read the labels and other info. shown on the J-1772. The info. is always there somewhere. I don't mean what you're charging with, I mean the current capacity of the charge machine that you can read without your bike being there. I always look at them. I have found a few that can only do 3KW (13 amps) and others that can do around 17KW (70 amps). Not all J-1772's are the same, not even from the same company.


-Don-  Auburn, CA

[2020_SRS_Commuter]

Thanks!
These are not the DC kind of chargers. Each of the two Charge Point stations has two plugs that both are the AC power kind. Any of them will fit into my SRS.

I don't know what these stations are rated at, but I will examine them when I return to work tomorrow and plug in. Maybe it says it on their video screen. There are no markings otherwise.

The ampere and kw readings I'm referring to is what's shown on my SRS's display. When it shows 56A it also shows 6kw. My guess is what its showing is the output of the onboard chargers, not what's going into them. Its the "premium" model so there are two chargers, 3+ kw, I dont know their exact ratings.

The way I understand it is there is a 2500Hz square wave across two of the pins in the station's connector that has some data encoded on it, that tells the charging vehicle how much current it is allowed to pull.

[DonTom]

Thanks!
These are not the DC kind of chargers. Each of the two Charge Point stations has two plugs that both are the AC power kind. Any of them will fit into my SRS.

I don't know what these stations are rated at, but I will examine them when I return to work tomorrow and plug in. Maybe it says it on their video screen. There are no markings otherwise.

The ampere and kw readings I'm referring to is what's shown on my SRS's display. When it shows 56A it also shows 6kw. My guess is what its showing is the output of the onboard chargers, not what's going into them. Its the "premium" model so there are two chargers, 3+ kw, I dont know their exact ratings.

The way I understand it is there is a 2500Hz square wave across two of the pins in the station's connector that has some data encoded on it, that tells the charging vehicle how much current it is allowed to pull.

The Control Pilot signal is a 1 kHz square wave at ±12 volts.

-Don-  Colfax, CA (charging up my Experia)

[electrictwowheeler]

Rereading your original post you mention a clicking sound when the charge amps dropped. Is this coming from the bike or the charger. Or call the charger an EVSE to avoid confusion if you want or a charge station, or level 2 charger or level 2 EVSE to be really correct.
Anyway, there might be issues with the chargers at your workplace so to be sure go to a commercial level 2 EVSE and try it. Make sure it is rated 6.6 or more. Usually stated on the level 2 EVSE. 6.6 is common but there are lower ratings and then of course the Charge Point shared ones that split the power when 2 EVs are plugged in.
I am assuming the Charge point chargers at work are just the small box type with no screen to view charging information. You could ask a coworker with an EV how many KW they are seeing when they charge.

[DonTom]

I am assuming the Charge point chargers at work are just the small box type with no screen to view charging information. You could ask a coworker with an EV how many KW they are seeing when they charge.

The info. is often NOT on the screen but printed on the box itself. Be sure to read the fine print.


I have yet to see one where I cannot read the info. one way or another. And not only that, many work place charge stations are listed on Plugshare. And if it is not, any Plugshare member with the info. can list it.


I assume most of us here are Plugshare members. If not, you should be, it's free to join.


-Don-  Auburn, CA

[opengl]

The ampere and kw readings I'm referring to is what's shown on my SRS's display. When it shows 56A it also shows 6kw. My guess is what its showing is the output of the onboard chargers, not what's going into them. Its the "premium" model so there are two chargers, 3+ kw, I dont know their exact ratings.

That is correct, what you're seeing on the bike's display is what your chargers are putting out to the battery, not what the EVSE is pulling from the grid (at a higher voltage.)

[2020_SRS_Commuter]

This is what I'm hooking up to at work.
Last night I took all the cladding off my Zero to start trying to find the problem so I rode my gas bike today.
On the way out tonight I'll look at the stations. I didn't want to go over there nosing around on the screen while all the other cars are hooked up in case people wondered what I was up to.
The clicking noise, and the arcing-crackling noise, both come from my motorcycle when the problem occurs.

I checked PlugShare... that could be handy. But it doesn't have these particular stations shown on it.

[electrictwowheeler]

That is the common double Charge Point unit I have used many times. The KW is at the bottom of the screen and it will say "shared" if it is splitting the output when two EVs are plugged in. When you tap your card the screen changes and there is a picture of the pedestal with a cable on each side and the KW is there also. The KW is set by the owner and could be most anything. I have seen anything between 3.7 and 7.2. I would strongly suggest you try a similar public charger just to make sure it is your bike and not the EVSEs at your work place. Have you ever charged at a public EVSE before?

[2020_SRS_Commuter]

No I haven't tried a public one, but that is the next rational step. Now that all the cladding is removed except the front fender, I'll be in a better position to hear where the noise is coming from, and additionally I'll be able to try a non-work charger as you are describing.
Did not yet go out to the ones at work to see the charging rate, but I do intend to do that. On thursday or friday this week Im going to ride it out to a public charger and give it a go.
I also wrote to Zero to see if they would replace the chargers out of warranty, because I heard other people say that had happened with them. Something to do with water intrusion and uninsulated fans. They didn't reply (yet).

[2020_SRS_Commuter]

The ones in the parking lot I was using say 6.6kw on the screen. Zero replied to my email today so Im going to  spend some time dealing with them and see what happens next. I'll let everyone know what happened.

[2020_SRS_Commuter]

Hi, to let everyone know what happened:

The emails from Zero basically just said see your dealer. Nothing there.

I took the bike apart enough to be able to hear which charger was making the noise, #1 to see if I could hear it and #2 to seal up what I think is the water intrusion point at the top of the battery pack at the rear.

I went to several Charge Point stations around where I live looking for one to test. That was a surprise. I took a while to find one to try! Some are behind gates at businesses or apartments, and a couple I could get to didn't work. Finally I found one at a  Hampton Inn parking lot to try.

And... turns out my bike is fine. The problem is with the chargers at work. Connected there it ramped up to 56A and held a steady line all the way through without a hint of trouble and no noise.

The waterproofing I did I am going to post to other threads here about that topic.

Thanks to everyone who provided input, I learned much. Also glad I don't have to swap a charger as I think they are about 2k apiece.

[DonTom]

And... turns out my bike is fine. The problem is with the chargers at work. Connected there it ramped up to 56A and held a steady line all the way through without a hint of trouble and no noise.

The waterproofing I did I am going to post to other threads here about that topic.

Thanks to everyone who provided input, I learned much. Also glad I don't have to swap a charger as I think they are about 2k apiece.

When you get to work and try to start charging, what is your SOC%? 


Zeros do something strange when you try to charge them at too high of a SOC%. This will NOT apply to smaller Zeros that only use the OBC at 1.3KW.


Here is an example, which is confusing the first time you notice it. But this little experiment will prove what I am saying.


Start your 6KW chargers at 80% SOC or above. You will then be charging at less that 2KW all the way to 100% SOC.


Next,  ride the bike so your SOC% is down to below 50%. Now charge it to 100% but take a look at 80% SOC when you get there. At that exact same 80%, now your charge will be close to your normal six KW.


I just don't see how your charge stations at work cannot work, if they work for anybody at all. These are NOT chargers, they are only a 240 VAC supply to connect to the DC charger in your bike. Not much to go wrong, unless it is something obvious, such as a blown CB, blank station screen, broken plug or switch, screen that says it is not in service, etc. If it looks normal, it should work on your bike. But if you have too high of a SOC% when you get there, it will not work as expected.


-Don-  Reno, NV

[2020_SRS_Commuter]

When I get to work, there is always 35-55% left. I arrange it that way so it can sit in the SOC recommended by Zero. At 10:30pm the scheduled charge begins, and it gets pulled up to 90,95, or 100 depending on how cold it is, for the ride home. At 11:30pm I show up, load up, and go.

The only thing I can think of is at work perhaps there is some component of power distribution leading to the Chargepoint Stations that is faulty, so when a high current is pulled voltage drops, charging stops, then voltage rises, and it begins charging again... repeat.

I have a bit of cladding to finish putting back on and then I will resume riding to work and I'm going to try to correlate if this sizzle and cycle thing is related to other EVs charging at the same time. In my search for another public one to try, I found one that was 6.6kw, but "shared" so if two are on it at the same time they only get served 3.3kw. Maybe the people where I work set it up wrong for the supplied service, and its supposed to be shared, instead of 6.6kw to each user.

Just speculations, I really don't know why, but I can definitely observe what's happening. I emailed the person in charge of them to share what's going on and ask them to look into it.

Two other possibilities are
1) Due to some intermittent nature, being at a the other Charge Point Station for testing had nothing to do with it and the problem IS with my bike, the problem just didn't occur there.
2) Moving the charger and cabling around to seal the battery pack disturbed some bad connection somewhere. I cant believe this is the case but its technically possible.

[electrictwowheeler]

And... turns out my bike is fine. The problem is with the chargers at work. Connected there it ramped up to 56A and held a steady line all the way through without a hint of trouble and no noise.

The waterproofing I did I am going to post to other threads here about that topic.

Thanks to everyone who provided input, I learned much. Also glad I don't have to swap a charger as I think they are about 2k apiece.

When you get to work and try to start charging, what is your SOC%? 


Zeros do something strange when you try to charge them at too high of a SOC%. This will NOT apply to smaller Zeros that only use the OBC at 1.3KW.


Here is an example, which is confusing the first time you notice it. But this little experiment will prove what I am saying.


Start your 6KW chargers at 80% SOC or above. You will then be charging at less that 2KW all the way to 100% SOC.


Next,  ride the bike so your SOC% is down to below 50%. Now charge it to 100% but take a look at 80% SOC when you get there. At that exact same 80%, now your charge will be close to your normal six KW.


I just don't see how your charge stations at work cannot work, if they work for anybody at all. These are NOT chargers, they are only a 240 VAC supply to connect to the DC charger in your bike. Not much to go wrong, unless it is something obvious, such as a blown CB, blank station screen, broken plug or switch, screen that says it is not in service, etc. If it looks normal, it should work on your bike. But if you have too high of a SOC% when you get there, it will not work as expected.


-Don-  Reno, NV

I have never seen this 2K thing happen on my 2020 SR/S. I plugged into a 6.6 Charge Point Charger at Chiriaco Summit just today at 91% SOC and it went right up to 5.8K like it always does but not for very long as it starts to cutback the amps around 95%. Don, weren't you just here at the Salton Sea in your RV or am I thinking of someone else? If it was you, where do you stay?

[DonTom]

I have never seen this 2K thing happen on my 2020 SR/S. I plugged into a 6.6 Charge Point Charger at Chiriaco Summit just today at 91% SOC and it went right up to 5.8K like it always does but not for very long as it starts to cutback the amps around 95%. Don, weren't you just here at the Salton Sea in your RV or am I thinking of someone else? If it was you, where do you stay?

I stayed a week at the Salton Sea SRA (NE side of SS) and then a week at Anza Borrego Desert State Park. There I stayed at Borrego Springs. You can see me charging my Zero DS  here.


I rushed back home when I received an E-mail that my Energica Experia was at A&S motorcycles in Roseville, CA. Long wait. I ordered that on June 1, 2022.


I will continue that RV trip in my other RV later next month.


I never tried starting a charge at 91%. Try 80% SOC sometime, if you can. I know that several Zeros have noticed the same thing, including both of mine as well as another guy on a 2020 Zero SR/S, just like yours. That was the guy who uses the name "lopsided" on Plugshare, so it also happens on newer bikes at around 80% SOC but only when starting the charge at around 80% SOC. I assume the BMS is doing something weird, so it's the battery, not the bike, as the BMS is inside the battery.


 I made an assumption that it was at 80% or more, but for whatever reason, perhaps it doesn't happen when you start the charge at 91%. Not many try to recharge when up that high. Of course, the drop-off is expected at 95% no matter what SOC you started at.


-Don-  Reno, NV