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Author Topic: Some nice press for Energica...  (Read 1451 times)

BigPoppa

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Some nice press for Energica...
« on: January 20, 2023, 04:24:43 AM »

https://www.teslarati.com/electric-motorcycle-energica-sales-2022/

One of the comments indicated the poster would buy an electric bike when he could do 200 miles @ 80mph. I don't think there's more than a dozen or so ICE models across all manufacturers that can do that and most of them are touring bikes that are physically larger and weigh more than any of the Energica line. Even my Triumph Trophy and BMW R1200RT would/will only get around 160 miles or so at a steady 80mph.

Sometimes I think the nay sayers set unrealistic benchmark just to be difficult.
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Specter

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Re: Some nice press for Energica...
« Reply #1 on: January 20, 2023, 04:44:36 AM »

The one that gets me is all the crybabies,  oh I towed a 10k load and my range cut in half.
Well gee, what did you expect moron?

You show me ONE ICE, where when you load the crap out of it, it gets the same mileage as it does empty?  you show me one chevy, ford, dodge, that when you are towing a big trailer on it, the mileage does not drop down into the toilet.  But we'll pretend that don't happen because we just want to bash electric vehicles.

I bet when the ICEs first came out, all the horse and buggy merchants were telling you that, oh ice farts are toxic unlike the organic exhaust fumes from a horse.  Engines are terrible.    Same twisted propaganda, just a century or so later down the road.

Id also like to see a regular vehicle that does not also suffer mileage loss when you are doing 80.

How many people broke their arms or lost teeth crank starting their ICE's back in the day?  You can find pretty much any and everything to whine about with any technology if that's all you want to do about it, especially when the tech is still emerging.

Aaron
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Richard230

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Re: Some nice press for Energica...
« Reply #2 on: January 20, 2023, 04:45:31 AM »

https://www.teslarati.com/electric-motorcycle-energica-sales-2022/

One of the comments indicated the poster would buy an electric bike when he could do 200 miles @ 80mph. I don't think there's more than a dozen or so ICE models across all manufacturers that can do that and most of them are touring bikes that are physically larger and weigh more than any of the Energica line. Even my Triumph Trophy and BMW R1200RT would/will only get around 160 miles or so at a steady 80mph.

Sometimes I think the nay sayers set unrealistic benchmark just to be difficult.

I have a friend who rides a F800ST that says exactly the same thing.  He says that when electric motorcycles will travel for 200 miles at 80 mph on a single charge then he will buy one.
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Richard's motorcycle collection:  2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2020 KTM 390 Duke, 2002 Yamaha FZ1 (FZS1000N) and a 1978 Honda Kick 'N Go Senior.

MVetter

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Re: Some nice press for Energica...
« Reply #3 on: January 20, 2023, 04:47:47 AM »


I have a friend who rides a F800ST that says exactly the same thing.  He says that when electric motorcycles will travel for 200 miles at 80 mph on a single charge then he will buy one.

And it has to cost under $5k.
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Richard230

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Re: Some nice press for Energica...
« Reply #4 on: January 20, 2023, 04:48:13 AM »

The one that gets me is all the crybabies,  oh I towed a 10k load and my range cut in half.
Well gee, what did you expect moron?

You show me ONE ICE, where when you load the crap out of it, it gets the same mileage as it does empty?  you show me one chevy, ford, dodge, that when you are towing a big trailer on it, the mileage does not drop down into the toilet.  But we'll pretend that don't happen because we just want to bash electric vehicles.

I bet when the ICEs first came out, all the horse and buggy merchants were telling you that, oh ice farts are toxic unlike the organic exhaust fumes from a horse.  Engines are terrible.    Same twisted propaganda, just a century or so later down the road.

Id also like to see a regular vehicle that does not also suffer mileage loss when you are doing 80.

How many people broke their arms or lost teeth crank starting their ICE's back in the day?  You can find pretty much any and everything to whine about with any technology if that's all you want to do about it, especially when the tech is still emerging.

Aaron

And back in the day early motorcycles needed "light pedal assist" when going up hills. That "light pedal assist" caused more than one heart attack.
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Richard's motorcycle collection:  2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2020 KTM 390 Duke, 2002 Yamaha FZ1 (FZS1000N) and a 1978 Honda Kick 'N Go Senior.

Richard230

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Re: Some nice press for Energica...
« Reply #5 on: January 20, 2023, 04:48:43 AM »


I have a friend who rides a F800ST that says exactly the same thing.  He says that when electric motorcycles will travel for 200 miles at 80 mph on a single charge then he will buy one.

And it has to cost under $5k.

Sorry, I forgot about that.  ;)
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Richard's motorcycle collection:  2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2020 KTM 390 Duke, 2002 Yamaha FZ1 (FZS1000N) and a 1978 Honda Kick 'N Go Senior.

princec

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Re: Some nice press for Energica...
« Reply #6 on: January 20, 2023, 04:51:13 AM »

It's not a totally unrealistic expectation, although it is slightly hyperbolic. The issue of course is that EVs are perceived to need longer ranges than ICE equivalents because of the lengthy and unreliable charging requirements, where an ICE just pops in 4 gallons in and is on its way for another 160 miles in 10 minutes.

I think the sea change in attitude will be when EV bikes genuinely do reach parity with ICE in actual range - which means 160 miles at 80mph. Or, by my back-of-a-fag-packet calcs, about 30kWH in the battery. This is doable with today's tech and would make for bikes about the same weight as a Goldwing (where it would actually make reasonable sense).

Cas :)
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ultrarnr

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Re: Some nice press for Energica...
« Reply #7 on: January 20, 2023, 04:57:31 AM »

I'd love to see a range test withe Brutus V9 with the 33.7 kWh battery and see how close it can come to the 200 mile mark.  http://brutusmotorcycle.com/brutusV9.html
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MVetter

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Re: Some nice press for Energica...
« Reply #8 on: January 20, 2023, 05:03:17 AM »

it would have to exist first
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Curt

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Re: Some nice press for Energica...
« Reply #9 on: January 20, 2023, 11:03:38 AM »

My benchmark is also 200 miles so I could go on local group rides that typically last 130-180 miles. 200 miles really means 120 to 150 miles. The Mt. Hamilton loop is 180 miles. And I'm not going to ask 10 people to make a stop at a charger for an hour.
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Fred

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Re: Some nice press for Energica...
« Reply #10 on: January 20, 2023, 02:29:36 PM »

You show me ONE ICE, where when you load the crap out of it, it gets the same mileage as it does empty?  you show me one chevy, ford, dodge, that when you are towing a big trailer on it, the mileage does not drop down into the toilet.  But we'll pretend that don't happen because we just want to bash electric vehicles.
I agree, but to be fair to the crybabies the reduced range when pulling a load isn't as inconvenient with an ICE as it's only a quick stop to refuel.
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jotjotde

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Re: Some nice press for Energica...
« Reply #11 on: January 20, 2023, 04:30:24 PM »

Reading this article I am asking myself wether Energica is not stretching themselves thin.
They supplied 88 bikes for the G20 summit in Bali last year and expanded their sales net while still being involved in the E-moto-GP.
Looking at currently ongoing topics (Experias delivered late, not answering e-mails, botched updates, disfunctionsal webshop) in this forum and elsewhere, I am afraid that they reduced their concern about people already owning their bikes. Zero has gone that way and I really hope I am wrong.
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Pard

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Re: Some nice press for Energica...
« Reply #12 on: January 20, 2023, 06:26:45 PM »

Call the USA office of Energica in CA.  I am able to reach the CEO, Stefano Benatti, easily by phone.  He picks up the phone on the first ring when I call the office!

Very responsive by text as well to that same number. 

Nothing like Zero.  World apart in my experience so far.

ENERGICA SALES AND SERVICE CENTER
tel. +1 415 243-6355
170 S. Spruce, Unit D
South San Francisco, CA 94080
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wavelet

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Re: Some nice press for Energica...
« Reply #13 on: January 23, 2023, 12:15:40 AM »

https://www.teslarati.com/electric-motorcycle-energica-sales-2022/

One of the comments indicated the poster would buy an electric bike when he could do 200 miles @ 80mph. I don't think there's more than a dozen or so ICE models across all manufacturers that can do that and most of them are touring bikes that are physically larger and weigh more than any of the Energica line. Even my Triumph Trophy and BMW R1200RT would/will only get around 160 miles or so at a steady 80mph.

Sometimes I think the nay sayers set unrealistic benchmark just to be difficult.
Someone called  :D ?
I've made similar comments in this forum many times and I stand by them.
Plenty of bikes do >200mi at 80mph, as long as they have a basic fairing and a 20L fuel tank; my current ICE bike, a Yamaha Tracer 900. does 360km / 224mi at 90 mph, on a a 18L tank. With panniers and a top case.
And it's hardly a heavyweight tourer, weighing in at 210kg /  463lbs wet. In fact, actual tourers usually have measly range because of gigantic curb weight (Goldwings are completely unfit-for-purpose, as many models of the past few decades can only legally carry ~40kg beyond two average US adults + basic safety gear).
The Yamaha TDM900 allrounder a friend had until recently did 400km+ on its tank at the same speed.

When I graduated from 400cc bikes to middleweights in the early 1990s, the rule-of-thumb was "for day- or multiday road trips, the minimum range is 200mi at motorway speeds (75-80mph)"

The stupid trend in the past 10 years to bad-aero naked bikes with 14L tanks isn't for actual riders.

The reason is simple:
To be able to join a group or club ride, the basic req is:
-- Ride ~100-125mi "administrative" motorway riding at 140 km/h, to get from the crowded, flat center of the country to the actual riding roads;
-- Ride ~150-200mi of sweepers/twisties in the mountains, at speeds ranging from 40mph to 70mph (mostly 50-60mph);
-- Ride ~100-125mi back home on the motorway, ditto at 140 km/h.

This is the case here, despite having a small country, and was no different when I lived in Boston in the early 1990s.

That's a total of up to 350-450mi / 500-650km of riding in a day.
Such trips typically include a long (1hr) lunch stop, during which one could DC-charge... If there were any DC charging stations along scenic roads, which there aren't hereabouts. None whatsoever.
Public AC L2 chargers are also rare-to-nonexistent in sparsely populated areas, where the good riding roads are (they're almost all in urban/suburban shopping malls here).

If an e-motorcycle could do 200mi at the required speed, I would be able to do a shortish day trips alone or with a couple of BEV-owning friends, charging twice at 12kW / 45min at public chargers en route (assuming the bike can maintain 12kW @230AC for the duration).
Any group ride with an ICE bike would still be out.

But, that's very far away, let alone at any reasonable weight (~220kg) and the e-motorcycle manufacturers don't even seem to be focusing on good aero at this point.
So, until BEV motorcycles can do 200mi at 80mph, they're only good for commuting or offroading if you can tow them to a legal ofroad area.
They're not an option for me or anyone I know for general use/touring/sport-touring/adventure-touring (noone here can afford to own 2 motorcycles), and the world sales numbers seem to bear that.
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Specter

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Re: Some nice press for Energica...
« Reply #14 on: January 23, 2023, 06:59:40 AM »

I think many people here can afford to own 2 motorcycles, and in fact do.
If you got 20 to 30k for an e bike, you can throw a little extra chum in the water for a gas bike too if you must.
If you are one of these folks who buys the e bike and has to eat ramen noodles 4 times a week to be able to afford it, well, that's on you.

How many people here remember window 3.0?  3.1   3.11 WFW, etc.   Probably less than 10 percent of you snot nosed kids do.  Better yet, let's do an apple IIe running Dos 3.3, or Prodos?
Remember all the problems they had with not being able to 'this and that', but you stuck with computers anyways, and guess what, in a few years
other systems came out, better OS' came out, updates were made that made it so it COULD do 'this and that' now.

Same way with bikes, they are getting better and better every year.  No they may not be able to 'this and that' quite yet, but there are many things they CAN do and do well.

But GEE, it doesn't have a crappucino machine in the left pannier that lets me pour myself a double crappa cappa mocha pooftie mooker to go with my olive toast.  (Im working on that !!! )  :o ::)

With all this yapping about E this and E that, it's going to be years anyways because the electrical infrastructure just is NOT ready, no matter which idiot currently in charge thinks.  But THIS right here, is where the solar panels on your home and a battery bank will really shine!  Store the electricity up by day and charge your bike up at night when you are at home, enjoying your double crappa cappa since you can't on your bike.

Life is too short to be constantly bitching about what you don't have, or can't have yet, enjoy what you Do have currently before it's too late to enjoy anything anymore.

Aaron
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