Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Valen]

my impression is that the bike 'thinks' there is a small (useable 10kWh) battery installed: that's more or less in line with the remaining charging time and range estimate.

That's exactly my feeling also. hopefullyIt seems to get better overtime.

Funny thing, as i got nervous i'm checking my mileage more often and it appears i got a small increase in efficiency so in real life range.

[jotjotde]

@ wadejesu: It is the update end number 042

@ Valen: Braved cold and wet weather this weekend and made two tours. Unfortunately, no improvement.
You wrote it needs 5 charge cycles, of which I have done 4 so far. I did not see anything change, so in my view there is no such thing as a learning curve of the bike's systems. For me it looks like there are some  factors simply wrong.

[Valen]

Mine went from a wooping 47km range estimate to around 150km now. It's still getting better even if it is not yet accurate (to be polite)

[Specter]

Hello everyone.
A few things to keep in mind.

The battery's temperature will affect it's capacity a lot, although you already know this.  These batteries have a LOT of thermal mass to them, so if it got cold overnight, just because it warmed back up a bit, it can still take hours for the battery to warmup too.

If you started out with a cooler battery and got xx range, rode it a bit, possibly jumped on it hard once or twice and warmed that battery pack up a bit, THAT right there is going to totally change your initial range because the temperature is significantly higher now and the battery is probably running much more efficient and you are able to squeeze more out of it.

Id keep an eye on SOC, and if you can, KW consumed to do the math on how much range you have left, as there are so many variables that will affect the range that estimates are kind of worthless IMO.  If you got a 20 KW battery and ate 15 of it already, it does not take a genius to see that you do NOT have 100 km of range left.

Please let us know how your bike is working after they worked all the bugs out.

What WERE these faults exactly?  How did this not get caught when you bought it or when a diag was done on it initially at time of sale?  I don't like the sound of 'corrupted software'.  How easily does this happen?

Aaron

[jotjotde]

Hi Aaron,

Battery temp is not the issue, because the range still was totally off when I really had pushed the bike on the Autobahn, bringing the battery temp indicator to yellow.

Doing the math in my head with SOC and kilometers already driven of course gives me a good indication and after having driven the bike 11000 km since July I think I have a pretty good feeling about how far I can go.
As I said it is not a serious issue, it is an annoyance. Considering the premium we paid for the bikes I thought I could expect a more dilligent testing of updates.

Reported the issue to my dealer last week who promised to forward it to Energica. No answers yet. Looking at the problems some of us have/had with getting reactions from Energica, I do not have much hope that I will hear from them soon. But I will keep you posted.

[Specter]

That is a bit disappointing there but hopefully they get back with you soon on the item.
FWIW and I don't want to start a war here.
I have very little faith in some of the 'dealers' ..... to do the right thing...... I'll leave it at that.

Your best bet may be to write to the company directly.  Either way though, IF something has to be done, it WILL have to be done, thru the dealer, so you are kind of stuck there.  Id keep bugging the dealer.  Keep on his ass until you hear something.  Remember, out of sight, out of mind, when you hand up the phone, YOUR problem becomes tiny  now.

To try to be fair here.  Many of the dealers also deal in many other brands of bikes, and repairs in general, so in all honestly YOUR problem is one of many they have going on, so possibly can get lost in the hubris of day to day business.

Given that each person's experience IS going to be a bit different, because each person has a different road they travel down.  (Sorry I couldn't help myself    ) there really is no cookie cutter magical formula that is going to work for everyone.

What if.... they gave us a user adjustable offset.  Ok, so for example in MY situation  I find that their range estimates are always about 10 percent high from what I really get, so i tap a menu and adjust the 'offset' to -10 percent.   In YOUR case, your range estimates always seem to be low, so you would go in and offfset YOUR estimate by Your percentage.  This way we truly could tweak the numbers to be more accurate for us. and it kind of lets them off the hook a bit too because they can say, well YOU have the ability to fine tune it to 'YOUR' driving patterns. etc.

Just some food for thought, that could be a quick fix that can make things slightly less  annoying.

Aaron

[jotjotde]

Hi Aaron,

My dealer is a bit uncommon, because it's a company originally building electrical cabinets and installations for industrial users and selling electric household stuff. But the owners were very interested in electric mobility, so since several years now they deal with electric bikes and scooters of different manufacturers. The bike guys including one of the bosses own themselves electrical bikes, and they are extremely helpful when I have issues.
I regard myself lucky to have bought there, because you are right saying that with 'normal' bike dealers you are only one of many. Originally I wanted to buy at a Ducati dealer who quoted me the full recommended price for his showroom Ribelle with more than 1000 km on the clock. When I contacted them later needing spare parts they didn't even bother to return my call 

News about my botched update:
My dealer contacted me after having discussed the problems with Energica. They want me to come in to have the update re-uploaded and get the logs from the bike's data storage.
It's a drive of some distance for me, so I will have to wait until the weather turns dry and a bit warmer (wet 1°C now ).

Will keep you posted as soon as I have news.
Juergen

[frank_b]

I'm also on v42 now and can confirm the range prediction is not correct anymore.   (Ribelle 2020 version)
To bad on v41 is was rather correct.

2 pics, went to work after the update next morning: 49% SOC range 40km     normal not a problem.
Range to work is about 63 km, ok just went anyway, we will see.   (It was never a problem, so just go  )
Did normal ride, 120 km/h on the highway ans indeed no problem.
On arrival: 8% SOC range 7 km.

So range prediction is just f*cked up in v42 cann't trust it anymore, no I'm driving on SOC.
I;ve keyless option, this should be better but "key out of range" Message is still there.

Difference is now I see it once and after the message cleared be pushing ok, the second time you get not the message but a little key symbol in the display.
Sp problem still there, message behavior is changed.

[jotjotde]

Hi Frank,

Greetings to the Netherlands! I see from your temperature readings, you're hardcore, commuting at 3 degC!

I totally agree with you, the approx. 60 km you went to work using about 40 % SOC sound totally OK, so there is no problem with the battery or so. The bike is working fully OK and that's a relief to know.
About the keyless function issue, I cannot contribute anything. I bought a showroom Ribelle without it, but if it would have had the function, I would have asked the dealer to deactivate it. Sorry, that doesn't help you now.

A question to you: When you are charging, does your charging time estimation still match or it is distorted as well?

Ride safe!
Jürgen

[frank_b]

Hi Jürgen,

Commuting is no problem in the cold (well sometimes I miss the heat of the engine when waiting for a traffic light  )
The performance off the batterie is also ok in the cold. So no problems there. (I do not drive with snow or ice conditions)

Keyless can't bij deactivated, there is no other way to start the bike. The message is annoying, but thats it. No the alert message comes ounce and then the key symbol. So I disregard it.
For me it was the other way around, I ordered a Ribelle with a key, but delivery was difficult (covid time) and the dealer called me, I've got one but is has the keyless option, so that was a no brainer, I'll take it 
And it's handy, key in the pocket. Now I have it, I like it.  Key always stays in my pocket with zipper.

I do not notice other behaviour with the charging estimation, that seems to be ok and is a match.

Ride safe!

[Specter]

Ok,  so.. this key fob not in range message.

Is that just a bug in the software or is it piss poor range on the fob and it actually does NOT see it?

Ive seen that as well and am wondering what it is because nothing else changed to cause that.  Im still sitting on the  bike and the key is still in my jacket pocket!

Aaron

[DonTom]

Ok,  so.. this key fob not in range message.

Is that just a bug in the software or is it piss poor range on the fob and it actually does NOT see it?

Ive seen that as well and am wondering what it is because nothing else changed to cause that.  Im still sitting on the  bike and the key is still in my jacket pocket!

Aaron

I ordered my Experia with that keyless option. IIRC, it cost around 400.00 US$ more.  I wonder if I made a mistake to order it, or perhaps it works better on the Experia. I guess I will find out, perhaps by the end of this month (Feb).


-Don-  Salton Sea SRA, CA

[ultrarnr]

The key not in range issue with the keyless ignition is the result of a firmware update. I think is was the firmware after 28 that caused it and Energica was never been able to fix it.

[Pard]

Was at the dealer today discussing the key fob issue.  I also would have preferred a normal key, but there were no bikes in stock with that config.

Dealer also sells ducatis, and the ducati keyless fob system has the same problem.

Europe has much stricter transmission power regulations for electronic transmission devices.  I wonder if the key fob is just neutered in terms of broadcast signal.  I would bet that is the issue.

Same issue with drone video transmission power.  Europe only alows a fraction of what you are allowed to use in the USA.

I may just use strong velcro and a backup strap to keep the key fob very close to the receiver while riding.

Ridiculous.

[Pard]

There are hacks to fix the issue


https://www.analog.com/en/technical-articles/where-to-go-for-regulations-concerning-shortrange-devices-srd.html

https://www.americanradioarchives.com/what-radio-frequency-does-car-key-fobs-run-on/

https://www.solidremote.com/blog/choose-right-frequency-for-remote-control-transmitter-project-315mhz-vs-433mhz/

"Customer in Europe will no doubt choose 433Mhz since is it required in EU / CE R&TTE regulations, while in the USA, customer usually can choose from 260 to 470Mhz freely, as they’re all approved frequencies in FCC ID regulation, but due to the cost and other concerns, there are simply two options that chosen most by customers, that is 315Mhz or 433Mhz.

So 315Mhz is not allowed in Europe, while both 315Mhz and 433Mhz can be allowed in USA, so to be more international, we would recommend our customers choose 433Mhz because it is simply a worldwide frequency that can be used everywhere.

Second, choosing 433.92Mhz has operating distance advantage.

As a customer, or manufacturer, in most circumstances, it is desired to achieve the maximum range by transmitting maximum output power allowed by regulatory agency, to make device operate in longer distance, or can be more stable in tough situations, thus higher transmitted power is good in most circumstances, while take FCC ID for example, the allowed transmitting power within 260 to 470Mhz range varies on different frequency, for example, the allowed power rating at 315Mhz is around 5dB lower than 433Mhz, thus although most receivers can have a 2dB sensitivity advantage at 315Mhz over 433Mhz, we will suffer from at least 3dB loss when choosing 315Mhz frequency, which simply means we have to use better receiver, or has shorter operating distance when using same receiver module."