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[Gasoline]

So the cell balance is saying 300-400 mv, and it won’t charge above 64%.  When the bike is plugged in, at 64% charge, it just clicks every 2-3 seconds and the display flashes all black marks for a few flashes. 

I didn’t know it was this bad as the previous owner wasn’t technical.  And I didn’t know I could connect to Bluetooth and check until after I paid and got the bike home.

What are people’s recommendation here?

Also, I was considering going in and self balancing the pack somehow.  Like drop the battery out, disassemble it, measure everything and figure out if I should discharge or charge the offending cells.

Lot of work. But don’t have much money to put into it anymore after buying it.

Thanks I’m advance for everyone’s advice, and Merry Christmas!

G

[DonTom]

So the cell balance is saying 300-400 mv, and it won’t charge above 64%.  When the bike is plugged in, at 64% charge, it just clicks every 2-3 seconds and the display flashes all black marks for a few flashes. 

I didn’t know it was this bad as the previous owner wasn’t technical.  And I didn’t know I could connect to Bluetooth and check until after I paid and got the bike home.

What are people’s recommendation here?

Also, I was considering going in and self balancing the pack somehow.  Like drop the battery out, disassemble it, measure everything and figure out if I should discharge or charge the offending cells.

Lot of work. But don’t have much money to put into it anymore after buying it.

Thanks I’m advance for everyone’s advice, and Merry Christmas!

G

welcome! I see that was your first post here.


It sounds like your OBC voltage is low, so it can only get to 64% SOC. Since it cannot get to 100% SOC and probably hasn't for a while, the balance will be way off too.


My recommendation would be to charge up the bike to 100% by using a Delta Q charger. Perhaps you can borrow one from somebody and then see if the bike will then charge up to 100% SOC. The connector for it is on top of the motor. If it then charges to 100% SOC, then you know your OBC needs to be replaced.


But more than likely, you have low output from your OBC (on-board charger--very bottom of bike in front of motor). It's not cheap, IIRC, the price on it is around $1,400.00 and that is if you replace it yourself.


-Don-  Auburn, CA

[Gasoline]

Thank you for the warm welcome! And thanks for the advice.  I may have found one to buy in LA.  I can also disassemble my OBC and measure the output as well.   I’ll do that now, since it’s easier than dropping the battery.

I had a question for you, if my overall battery balance is so far off, if I plug it into the quick charger, will there be any danger to the battery? Or does the BMS automatically take care of the balancing once it has a legit source of voltage/power?

If it auto balances then this may solve all of my problems, and I can just charge externally from now on.  Super excited and filled with hope again!! Haha

Thank you!

[DonTom]

Thank you for the warm welcome! And thanks for the advice.  I may have found one to buy in LA.  I can also disassemble my OBC and measure the output as well.   I’ll do that now, since it’s easier than dropping the battery.

You may not be able to measure it when it is disconnected. Most modern chargers need to see battery voltage before they put out anything at all.

I had a question for you, if my overall battery balance is so far off, if I plug it into the quick charger, will there be any danger to the battery? Or does the BMS automatically take care of the balancing once it has a legit source of voltage/power?

No danger to the battery and it should still balance when it gets to full charge.  The BMS is all inside the battery case and it should take care of everything.

If it auto balances then this may solve all of my problems, and I can just charge externally from now on.  Super excited and filled with hope again!! Haha

Thank you!

The OBC is around 1,300 watts. The Delta Q is only around 800 watts. So expect it to take a bit longer to charge than a new OBC. But the DeltaQ's are very reliable. I have yet to hear about one that has crapped out.


Also, if and when you replace the OBC, you can then use both chargers and charge up about twice as fast (2,100 watts total instead of only 1,300 or only 800 watts).



If the OBC is not being used, you will have to turn the key on to start the charge from the DeltaQ. The contactor in the battery case must close, which is normally done with the OBC charging or when the bike is keyed on to run.


I would first charge to full, leave it on charging for ten minutes or longer after it's at 100% SOC so the contactor opens.  Then a ride the bike enough to get it back down a bit and then another charge to full to get it to balance. I would charge to full several times after rides and see how the balance is doing. It should get better each time until balancing hits normal levels.


-Don-  Auburn, CA

[Gasoline]

This is all really helpful
Information.  Thank you for sharing with me! You’ve given me hope that my lemon can be turned into lemonade!

800W is fine.  As long as the battery can get to balance I’m happy as a clam:)

Wow I never thought an onboard charger could go bad like this. 

I’ll let you all know how it goes!!

g

[DonTom]

This is all really helpful
Information.  Thank you for sharing with me! You’ve given me hope that my lemon can be turned into lemonade!

800W is fine.  As long as the battery can get to balance I’m happy as a clam:)

Wow I never thought an onboard charger could go bad like this. 

I’ll let you all know how it goes!!

g

The OBC is probably the most unreliable thing on the bike. Many have had to change theirs here. 1,300 watts is a lot to ask from such a small uncooled package without any large heat fins, fan or anything to keep the guts of it cool.


-Don-  Auburn, CA

[DerKrawallkeks]

Hello,
Use an external charger as recommended before but yes, there is "danger"! You must charge slowly, because the BMS has a max balancing current. If you can't throttle the charging current like on a DeltaQ, then plug it in and out every 10 minutes. That'll leave time for balancing.

There is no true danger as the BMS will protect the cells from overvoltage, but it can only switch everything off, and you don't want that.

[Alan. Yes THAT Alan]

Gasoline,
  I've recently posted similar problems with my 2014 SR and it boils down to the charger having gone bad somehow. I've already got another one on order. They cost $817. Expensive, and I hate to have to pay that much on this motorcycle that's not very old yet. But it's still cheaper than buying a new motorcycle.
 

[Gasoline]

Hi all! So I’ve gotten my new elcon charger, and from my understanding it can charge at ~1600 watts with 110VAC, or 3300 with 220VAC. 

I, for some reason, cannot get it to charge, either as piggyback to the OBC, or as standalone as Don mentioned before using the key.

what I’ve tried so far is this:

Plug the OBC charger in. It starts charging, green charging light comes on on dash.  Then turn on the Elcon charger, but the elcon charger never sends actual power. 

Alternately, I’ve tried turning the key on, and then plugging the already on elcon charger, and nothing happens, I’m able to see if the elcon charger is pulling power because I monitor my 120VAC system load. 


Any help here or guidance would be appreciated.

I’m contacting elcon, to see if I did something wrong with the setup. 

[DonTom]

Hi all! So I’ve gotten my new elcon charger, and from my understanding it can charge at ~1600 watts with 110VAC, or 3300 with 220VAC. 

I, for some reason, cannot get it to charge, either as piggyback to the OBC, or as standalone as Don mentioned before using the key.

what I’ve tried so far is this:

Plug the OBC charger in. It starts charging, green charging light comes on on dash.  Then turn on the Elcon charger, but the elcon charger never sends actual power. 

Alternately, I’ve tried turning the key on, and then plugging the already on elcon charger, and nothing happens, I’m able to see if the elcon charger is pulling power because I monitor my 120VAC system load. 


Any help here or guidance would be appreciated.

I’m contacting elcon, to see if I did something wrong with the setup.

Where are you connecting the Elcon to on the bike?


I have mine connected to the motor controller. I use the same Elcon, the 3.3KWs, two of them and I charge my Zero SR at a total of close to 8KW  with the OBC.


If the Elcon sees no voltage, it will put out nothing. So check that from the bike before you even connect the Elcon to see if that is what is wrong.


-Don-  Auburn, CA

[Gasoline]

Thanks Dan, 

I’m plugging it in next to the motor. 

What is your procedure to get it to charge? I can’t seem to get the elcon to pull any power from my 120VAC.

I am trying first turning the key on the bike.  And then plugging the elcon in. 

[Gasoline]

Ok.  I turn the key on, and I plug the elcon in, and I am pulling about 200 watts. 

The elcon is slightly warm.

Maybe the BMS is balancing the cells now? Because the cell imbalance is so far gone?

When I do OBC only, with 120VAC, it pulls 1000 watts approximately, and the thing keeps turning on and off at 60% charge.

But with the elcon only, and key in, it pulls only 200 watts.  Weird.

I’m just gonna keep it plugged in for a few hours. 

Cell balance is 375mv now. Hopefully it will get better!

Praying!!

[Gasoline]

Ok.  I think the BMS is definitely not balancing, and the battery, because of one or a few cells are so out of whack, won’t be able to get to the point where it will start balancing. 

Does anyone know an easy way to get to the pins that allow me to self-balance the battery?  And also how do I get the readout of all the cell voltages?

I bought a usb interface, as well as a ODB2 connector.  Was hoping I wouldn’t need to use it.

Man this is really turning into a lot more work than I hoped for.

[Gasoline]

Alternately does anyone know if I can force the BMS to balance through software? 

I guess I’m hoping for things the engineers didn’t think about lol.

[rgutt]

If you're willing to open up the monolith and have a Li charger that can work on a single cell at a time, you can just charge each cell one at a time manually.