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[Pard]

7.2 S with the power tank for an extra 6kW charge tank option.

Claimed 30% more range with 45lbs increase in curb weight

You can't have both, the power tank and charge tank occupy the same space. If you wanted both more range and faster charging then you'd need to get a 14.4 and add the charge tank, or step up to at least an SR which for 2023 model (or is it 2022? The one that looks like an SR/F) will get you 15.6kW/h and 3kW charging stock.

Understood.  Thank you!

[Pard]

Contacted my dealer to try an arrange a trade in of my FXE towards an S model with the power pack tank for the extra range.

Guess what!!!!

The dealer is not interested in taking my bike in trade, the same bike they just sold me!  LOL!

I think I will contact the attorney general of my region and start a lemon law claim. 

If the dealer will not even allow me to take a major loss on a trade in for a new bike from their dealership, I cry foul.

Will see what transpires.

Zero blew me off as well after analyzing 400 miles of my logs.  They just said your actual performance may vary.

However, it should not vary by 50% of stated performance claims when I am riding it as per manufacturer recommendations.

Rant over.  Going riding!

[TheRan]

With all of the modifications you've done to it I'm not surprised they don't want it back. Not saying you've done bad work but they can't guarantee that. And the range you got wasn't far off expected. Going purely off the state of charge you could have got about 53 miles on your first trip, 54 miles on the second, at sub 50mph to 0% (and it would have gone further once it hits 0). Zero claim 60 miles at 55mph in ideal conditions, so a nice warm day on level ground with gentle acceleration.

[Pard]

Every single modification implemented has been Zero factory parts or completely reasonable and reversible items such as swapping out brake master cylinders.  I can revert it all to bone stock in 2 hrs.

Nothing I have done would impact warranty at all.

In any case, that did not even come up in the conversation with the dealer.

The zero website says 40 miles at 70 mph.  Cannot be done.

60 miles at 55mph cannot be done.

I get 50 miles at an average speed of 40mph.

Very misleading (fraudulent) performance claims by Zero.


Fun bike, but misleading advertising by the company.  Materially misleading and a case for fraud.

As far as the dealer goes, absolutely unreasonable IMHO for them not to buy back my stock configured FXE at a 25% loss to me , towards a trade in for another brand new Zero S at full retail price.

I am taking all the losses here.

They can then go ahead and make profit on my initial FXE purchase, on the sale of the same FXE as a used bike, and then profit off a sale of a new S to me again.

Or, I can get the lemon law involved and see if they agree about the false advertising claims. 

[TheRan]

While their range estimates may not be accurate to what people get in the real world they are based on a standardised test, and they do state that real life results may vary. If anyone was able to challenge that then they would have by now, and not even just with Zero but every other manufacturer that tests to the same standard.

And I don't get why you're so adamant that they have to buy your bike back off you. They don't, and perhaps they just don't want to hassle of selling a used bike. Perhaps there's not enough profit in it for them. If you truly believe that your bike is faulty them make a warranty claim, something that they legally have to deal with.

[Pard]

Not trying to persuade you @TheRan.

Just sharing the typical experience on the East Coast USA when it comes to buying and trading in bikes.  Dealers will ALWAYS take your bike in trade, often at a very low price, but always take it in order to sell another bike to you the customer.  Same with automobiles.

Not sure where you are located, but my reaction to the dealer is based on what is customary in these parts.


"range that can be expected" is the problematic language.  No way in hell you can get 40 miles at 70 mph on an FXE.  "actual range may vary" is not a license to outright misrepresent the truth in marketing.

[Bodo]

It has done that range with the standardised test in the lab. All those tests are not supposed to promise you a range, but to enable you to compare it with other vehicles that have done the same test under the same mandatory lab conditions.

Those tests often always are simplified, so that they can be reproduced in labs all around the world. Thus, they will never match my commute to work, because roads, weather, climate, other road users and my excitement never match the simplified test criteria.

[Pard]

It has done that range with the standardised test in the lab. All those tests are not supposed to promise you a range, but to enable you to compare it with other vehicles that have done the same test under the same mandatory lab conditions.

Those tests often always are simplified, so that they can be reproduced in labs all around the world. Thus, they will never match my commute to work, because roads, weather, climate, other road users and my excitement never match the simplified test criteria.

OK, but if I go in to a dealer to purchase a machine and ask the dealer if the machine can comfortably make a 50 mile ride on secondary roads at speeds averaging less that 60 mph, and they state "of course," if that is false, there is a violation.

The dealer can point to the advertised specs and say that the manufacturer claims are being used.

Yet, the customer has been defrauded.  I cannot use the FXE for 50 miles unless I ride it below 50mph.  Very material adverse event.

Done debating this topic. 

[Bodo]

All manufacturers of certain vehicles have to do this test and many others in order to get their vehicles homologated. Some of the test results they have to publish, others even need to be included in advertising in some jurisdictions.

It's not easy to prove that the dealer had more information; and even if - how would his information match your individual use of said moped?

[Pard]

Whatever....

I will sell the bike for whatever the market will take, and get an S with the extra battery.

That should be a better fit for the mission.

[Bodo]

I was having the same thoughts before buying the FXE. Do I need a 14.4 or is a 7.2 sufficient?
Now eight months and 7,000km in, I'm more relaxed; but I'm still interested in test driving an S to see if it could be a replacement for the FXE for the range, but also for performance.

When you look for something bigger, and have the license for it; you might as well look at Energicas.

[TheRan]

It sucks and I understand your frustration, but it's just the way it is. It's not unique to Zeros, electric bikes (cars are the same), or even just electric vehicles. Most people won't get the specified range from a gas vehicle either. And it's not even vehicles, most battery powered devices won't last as long as they saw, power tools like impact wrenches won't put out the advertised torque, graphics cards won't give you the FPS that the manufacturer says, and so on. Every manufacturer will do whatever they can to get the best specs they can, within the law. As customers it's up to us to do the research ourselves and watch and read reviews to find out how things perform in the real world.

The only thing I can think of that regularly exceeds its rating is the battery life of digital stills cameras. The standardised test they go through (CIPA) is more of a challenge than what most people will put the camera through in real life. However because it's a standard and everyone uses it, everyone uses it even if it doesn't make it look as good on paper.

[DonTom]

Every single modification implemented has been Zero factory parts or completely reasonable and reversible items such as swapping out brake master cylinders.  I can revert it all to bone stock in 2 hrs.

Nothing I have done would impact warranty at all.

In any case, that did not even come up in the conversation with the dealer.

The zero website says 40 miles at 70 mph.  Cannot be done.

60 miles at 55mph cannot be done.

I get 50 miles at an average speed of 40mph.

Very misleading (fraudulent) performance claims by Zero.


Fun bike, but misleading advertising by the company.  Materially misleading and a case for fraud.

As far as the dealer goes, absolutely unreasonable IMHO for them not to buy back my stock configured FXE at a 25% loss to me , towards a trade in for another brand new Zero S at full retail price.

I am taking all the losses here.

They can then go ahead and make profit on my initial FXE purchase, on the sale of the same FXE as a used bike, and then profit off a sale of a new S to me again.

Or, I can get the lemon law involved and see if they agree about the false advertising claims.

It has all been done. But under perfect conditions with a very light rider. And the bike is ridden until it dies. There could be quite some range left at 0% SOC, but I wouldn't trust it for more than a mile or two.


The range numbers from Zero are NOT made-up numbers.  Zero paid money to get those numbers from a 3rd party. The last I heard, Energica does NOT do that, but Zero does.


There have been times where I have done better than those specs. Wind in my favor, very slow speeds, a lot of downhill, etc.


I have no complaints about their range specs, but never rely on them.


Besides that, I go more by the KWH capacity of the battery and other such stuff. I do not even want to see a range spec as long as the nominal and useable KWH capacity of the battery is accurate.


-Don-  Reno, NV

[Bodo]

The range numbers from Zero are NOT made-up numbers.  Zero paid money to get those numbers from a 3rd party. The last I heard, Energica does NOT do that, but Zero does.

Energica quotes values according to WMTC, which must be assessed by a third party. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Motorcycle_Test_Cycle

[DonTom]

The range numbers from Zero are NOT made-up numbers.  Zero paid money to get those numbers from a 3rd party. The last I heard, Energica does NOT do that, but Zero does.

Energica quotes values according to WMTC, which must be assessed by a third party. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Motorcycle_Test_Cycle

Oh, Okay, but I heard differently four years ago when I questioned the weird difference in range vs. the SS9- and ss9+ with an Energica employee.


See here for the difference that make no sense to me. As if a KWH is less than a KWH at high speeds but is more than a KWH at low speeds when the KWH battery capacity is doubled.


The other thing we need to remember is just as with ICE cars, those numbers are for comparisons ONLY. Accuracy is NOT to be expected except for comparison purposes. So if they are all low, then they compare well. YMMV.


BTW, I hear the EPA will lower the MPG on a vehicle on request. But they will never raise it.


Even electric cars are rated in MPG for comparison purposes (using average prices). My Tesla M3 is an AWD and gets 116 MPG to compare with ICE or other EVs.


But the same car, which is cheaper withOUT AWD, gets BETTER range and better "MPG".


Telsa didn't like the idea that the cheaper car got the best range and best MPG.


So they lowered the MPG and range spec of the Tesla M3 without the AWD on request and got it.


But the truth is, I would get around 20 more miles range if I did NOT have the AWD that cost me 5K$ more.


Tesla has them both rated exactly the same MPG, 116 MPG.


Always remember that this world runs on BS. Mostly green BS.


But I look at the bright side. It's everywhere, the one resource we will never run out of.


-Don-  Reno, NV