Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[BigPoppa]

Yesterday when I was doing my periodic battery drain to 0% on my Ribelle my wife asked me why I had to do it on the motorcycle but not my cars. When I had my 13kw EsseEsse9 the manual stated:

It is recommended to discharge the battery until display of the "Low battery" message and SOC (state of charge) = 0% every 10-20 normal charging cycles. On reaching 0% you must recharge the motorcycle as soon as possible.

...and...

For optimum performance, the battery cell balancing process should be performed on a regular basis (at least every 15 days). The balancing operation is automatic and is complete when the dashboard display shows 100%.

Looking at the manual for my 21kw Ribelle I only see this:

Charge the batteries of the motorcycle to 100% at least once every 15 days to balance the cells making up the battery pack correctly. If the battery cells are not balanced correctly, the charge level indicated on the display may not represent the effective state of charge of the motorcycle battery pack.

I didn't realize the draining to 0% was missing from my Ribelle's manual. Is that correct? Do I no longer need to drain it to 0% to maintain battery health? If so this is great news to me as it's always been a bit of a chore trying to gauge my SoC so I arrive home in the single digits so I could put the bike up on a rear stand and drain it the rest of the way to 0%

[MVetter]

Yeah I don't see any compelling reason to drain the battery to 0% ever. I think they realized it wasn't a good idea and omitted it from the current revisions.

[DonTom]

I think draining it to below zero SOC only helps with the calibration of the SOC. It's probably not even good for the battery, I would rather just have my SOC be a little off. I know when it's time to recharge close enough without an accurate SOC.


While I did let my Esse Esse 9 run to below 0 when I had a message on the screen, if I see that message again, I will probably just ignore it.  I have only seen that message one time and I have wondered if charging at higher SOCs too often was the cause of it.   I used to charge too often.


I now try to make sure I only recharge when below 30% and never in the green when possible. I have not seen that message again since I have been doing it this way.


-Don-  Auburn, CA

[jotjotde]

Apparently Energica deleted that recommendation, so I do not go to 0 % on purpose anymore.
Probably Don is right, it had something to do with calibration.

Going to 0 % should not be detrimental for the battery, looking at the numbers there is a quite large safety margin included.
The nominal capacity is 21,5 kWh but real-life capacity is in the region of 16 - 17 kWh.

[yhafting]

Do I no longer need to drain it to 0% to maintain battery health?

I dont think it should matter for the battery health.

However i got rid of a lot of recurring messages (key not found etc) when i did. It does seem strange that it should help at all, and i have no idea if 0% is needed (could be 10 or 20% for that matter to me), but im 100% sure something was reset by doing that. It did not help on the "undefined fault" part i have seen, but i had a few other odd messages that went away along with the (daily) key not found errors. Im sure this is 100% fixable in firmware (mine was FW EN.A.002615.041, and BDY 7.0.2, DSB 234).

[DonTom]

Going to 0 % should not be detrimental for the battery, looking at the numbers there is a quite large safety margin included.
The nominal capacity is 21,5 kWh but real-life capacity is in the region of 16 - 17 kWh.

But a lot (most?) of that unavailable capacity is probably above 100% SOC.


-Don-  Auburn, CA

[PWM]

100% indicated is a real capacity limit because it is not alterable by firmware, IMO.

Agreed, 0% factors a suitable safety and obsolescence margin determined by energica to ensure happy customers.

NCM benefits best (10-12yrs) when used hard but within boundaries narrower than the typical fuel gage refill limit.

Opinions are like assholes...is that how it goes?

 

[Hans2183]

I've literally done it once in 20.000 km the last year and I have no SOC issues. Estimates are still reliable.

I think letting it charge up to 100% periodically is more important. I do a lot of fast charging on the road (to 80% at most) but also at least 3x a week at home to 100% overnight.

[ColdSoda]

Do I no longer need to drain it to 0% to maintain battery health?

I dont think it should matter for the battery health.

However i got rid of a lot of recurring messages (key not found etc) when i did. It does seem strange that it should help at all, and i have no idea if 0% is needed (could be 10 or 20% for that matter to me), but im 100% sure something was reset by doing that. It did not help on the "undefined fault" part i have seen, but i had a few other odd messages that went away along with the (daily) key not found errors. Im sure this is 100% fixable in firmware (mine was FW EN.A.002615.041, and BDY 7.0.2, DSB 234).

I am very disappointed in the keyless fob on my 23 ribelle wish I would have gone with the regular key, having to stand there and hold that button multiple times is really annoying because it never works the first time as you would expect. Wish I would have waited for a regular key frame as I initially ordered (I was told the keyless option would be faster to produce at the factory). I stand there with the fob on top of the sensor with a fresh battery, so its not user error as far as I know...

Would be nice if we could update firmware somehow myself without a dealer, I'm waiting for a dealer to show up in AZ, USA. I hear the new firmware does help with the key fob thing.

I also get the "unknown fault" error about 6 times in a row (after trying a couple times to get the key fob to recognize) before I can ride the bike.

My range is about 85 miles 100% to 0% based on my last test, which matches the average consumption and expected battery capacity. The top speed is severely limited on the last 20% or so, hard to keep up with freeway traffic sometimes, LOL. The last 10% I just ran full throttle on the freeway the whole way home and it was a strange experience for sure. Speed pulsated and fluctuated between 75-95 mph (indicated) randomly it seemed and was really slow to accelerate.

I just ran my ribelle rs to 0% and charging to 100% took exactly 14 hours 53 minutes and 35 seconds. This was on my home charger L2 in my garage with green battery and ~60 degree F temp. Not a complaint, as I don't usually get down to 0%, but found the test interesting for sure.

I'm on firmware EA.A.002835.041, BDY 7.0.2, DSB 234.

[DonTom]

I am very disappointed in the keyless fob on my 23 ribelle wish I would have gone with the regular key, having to stand there and hold that button multiple times is really annoying because it never works the first time as you would expect.

There have been threads on that problem here, but not for the 2023.


Try holding it down for two seconds, not much shorter or longer. If that doesn't work, then try shorter as well as longer, but NOT multiple times. Wait after each time until you find exactly what it wants.


The Experia PDF says (I don't have a Ribelle PDF):


"Using the E-Keyless system Switching the E-Keyless system “ON” and “OFF”. Switching the system “ON” activates the E-Keyless system and all electronic devices on the vehicle. To switch “ON”, press the E-Keyless button (1) on the ignition switch block. To switch the E-Keyless system “OFF”, turning the motorcycle and all electronic devices off, press and hold the E-Keyless button (1) on the ignition switch block for about 2 seconds"


It also says:


"IMPORTANT! The functionality of the E-Keyless system may be degraded in the following situations: • In the vicinity of structures and facilities producing powerful radio frequency emissions (telecommunications antennas, electric power stations and substations, airports etc.); • When carrying wireless communication devices or other devices producing radio frequency emissions; • In the vicinity of electrical devices (wireless keys, computers etc.) which may interfere with the radio communication of the E-Keyless system."

-Don-  Auburn, CA

[ColdSoda]

I am very disappointed in the keyless fob on my 23 ribelle wish I would have gone with the regular key, having to stand there and hold that button multiple times is really annoying because it never works the first time as you would expect.

There have been threads on that problem here, but not for the 2023.


Try holding it down for two seconds, not much shorter or longer. If that doesn't work, then try shorter as well as longer, but NOT multiple times. Wait after each time until you find exactly what it wants.


The Experia PDF says (I don't have a Ribelle PDF):


"Using the E-Keyless system Switching the E-Keyless system “ON” and “OFF”. Switching the system “ON” activates the E-Keyless system and all electronic devices on the vehicle. To switch “ON”, press the E-Keyless button (1) on the ignition switch block. To switch the E-Keyless system “OFF”, turning the motorcycle and all electronic devices off, press and hold the E-Keyless button (1) on the ignition switch block for about 2 seconds"


It also says:


"IMPORTANT! The functionality of the E-Keyless system may be degraded in the following situations: • In the vicinity of structures and facilities producing powerful radio frequency emissions (telecommunications antennas, electric power stations and substations, airports etc.); • When carrying wireless communication devices or other devices producing radio frequency emissions; • In the vicinity of electrical devices (wireless keys, computers etc.) which may interfere with the radio communication of the E-Keyless system."

-Don-  Auburn, CA

I'll try timing the 2 seconds and go from there. Appreciate the recommendation!

[BigPoppa]

Sorry to digress from the original topic but thinking about the keyless ignition issues on our Energicas, especially with the .041 firmware, I wonder if it’s an Italian thing? I remember my Ducati Diavel had issues recognizing the fob, especially at some gas stations. I wonder if Energica and Ducati are sourcing a common component or two for the keyless system.

For comparison, my Victory Cross Country Tour (OEM accessory installed after purchase) and my BMW R1200RT-LC have zero issues with the key fob. Same with my Chevy Bolt and my Ford Escape.

[Richard230]

When I bought my 2016 BMW R1200RS in May 2015, it came with a keyless ignition system, which I had never used before. I was concerned how it would work over time and what would happen if it stopped working while I was out in the boondocks. However, I am happy to report that the system has worked perfectly all these years and has never failed to start my bike or to lock or unlock the fork. While it does turn on the ignition almost instantly, it will take about two seconds of push before the fork lock activates. Anyway I have now converted to liking the keyless system and would be willing to buy another BMW motorcycle with that system again.

So if Energica is using the same (likely off-the-shelf) device as BMW, Ducati, etc. use then it should work OK, unless the signal generator was poorly located on the chassis or there is a glitch in the programming. 

[BigPoppa]

I feel like there has to have been a change in later firmware versions. Before I had my Ribelle's firmware upgraded a few months ago, I rarely, if ever had issues with my key fob being seen by the bike. Ever since the firmware update, I can't leave the fob in my pants pocket, I have to hold it near the side of the bike to turn it on. In addition, it's only been post firmware upgrade that I now occasionally receive the key not in range error while riding.

[DonTom]

I feel like there has to have been a change in later firmware versions. Before I had my Ribelle's firmware upgraded a few months ago, I rarely, if ever had issues with my key fob being seen by the bike. Ever since the firmware update, I can't leave the fob in my pants pocket, I have to hold it near the side of the bike to turn it on. In addition, it's only been post firmware upgrade that I now occasionally receive the key not in range error while riding.

Did the update do anything useful for the bike? Would you have been better off without it?


-Don-  Auburn, CA