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[Alan. Yes THAT Alan]

I recently bought this motorcycle. It has 2300 miles on it. There is the 13kw/h main battery, plus the extra secondary battery (I think it's 3 kw/h). So total, I have about 16 kw/h.

I charged it up to 100%, then left it plugged in overnight, to let it balance. When that was done, the tiny green LEDs on the main battery flashed green, with no red light, so all is well with the batteries.

 But, driving around town, no highway driving at all, I'm only getting about a 100-mile range. I'm not accelerating like a maniac. My speed stays below 45 mph. Since the full charge, I've driven 10 miles, and the battery is down to 90%.

 I thought it would be higher. Last year, I owned a 2014 SR with just the 11.4 kw/h battery, no secondary, and it also got about 100 miles in city driving. So shouldn't this new one be better? Does anybody else have a 2016 SR with the secondary battery? What kind of city-driving range do other people get?

[Richard230]

I have a 2018 S with the power tank battery. Riding under 40 mph, I will get around 150 miles on level ground. About 90 miles at 65 mph.

[DonTom]

I recently bought this motorcycle. It has 2300 miles on it. There is the 13kw/h main battery, plus the extra secondary battery (I think it's 3 kw/h). So total, I have about 16 kw/h.

I charged it up to 100%, then left it plugged in overnight, to let it balance. When that was done, the tiny green LEDs on the main battery flashed green, with no red light, so all is well with the batteries.

 But, driving around town, no highway driving at all, I'm only getting about a 100-mile range. I'm not accelerating like a maniac. My speed stays below 45 mph. Since the full charge, I've driven 10 miles, and the battery is down to 90%.

 I thought it would be higher. Last year, I owned a 2014 SR with just the 11.4 kw/h battery, no secondary, and it also got about 100 miles in city driving. So shouldn't this new one be better? Does anybody else have a 2016 SR with the secondary battery? What kind of city-driving range do other people get?

Figure around 8 miles per KWH of easy riding. But don't go by SOC. To do a fair test you will have to fully charge each &  ride until they  limp to a stop and then compare. Same route, same speed & conditions & at the same time.


-Don-  Auburn, CA

[2020_SRS_Commuter]

Hi.
Is it cold where you are?
If its around 60F and especially below 50F you will see androp in battery output.

[Alan. Yes THAT Alan]

Still in the mid 80s in south Texas. There's a loooong riding season down here!

Thanks to all for the input. That 8 miles per kw/h sounds like a reasonable rule-of-thumb. I'll keep riding it for several charges and see if it stays consistent.

[mdjak1]

Get a device like a Kill-A-Watt that measures the total power input into the battery.   Charge the bike to 100%, ride down to around 20-30% SOC, note SOC, note mileage traveled, charge back to 100%. Then do the math to determine battery capacity.   I do this every time I recharge my 2017 FXS 6.5 modular just to be sure both batteries are still working.

It is entirely possible that your power tank (secondary battery) might not be working.   

[Richard230]

Get a device like a Kill-A-Watt that measures the total power input into the battery.   Charge the bike to 100%, ride down to around 20-30% SOC, note SOC, note mileage traveled, charge back to 100%. Then do the math to determine battery capacity.   I do this every time I recharge my 2017 FXS 6.5 modular just to be sure both batteries are still working.

It is entirely possible that your power tank (secondary battery) might not be working.

When I bought my 2014 S its Power Tank was not working. When a Zero tech visited my dealer to see what was wrong, he discovered that one of the connecting cables had a bent pin, apparently caused when the bike was assembled at the factory. He also found that the PT had a defective component and it was not working. He repaired the connector and replaced the PT and the bike has been running fine ever since. 

[DonTom]

When I bought my 2014 S its Power Tank was not working. When a Zero tech visited my dealer to see what was wrong, he discovered that one of the connecting cables had a bent pin, apparently caused when the bike was assembled at the factory. He also found that the PT had a defective component and it was not working. He repaired the connector and replaced the PT and the bike has been running fine ever since. 

What were the symptoms of your defective power tank? Were there other symptoms besides reduced range?


-Don-  Reno, NV

[Richard230]

When I bought my 2014 S its Power Tank was not working. When a Zero tech visited my dealer to see what was wrong, he discovered that one of the connecting cables had a bent pin, apparently caused when the bike was assembled at the factory. He also found that the PT had a defective component and it was not working. He repaired the connector and replaced the PT and the bike has been running fine ever since. 

What were the symptoms of your defective power tank? Were there other symptoms besides reduced range?


-Don-  Reno, NV

No. The lack of the expected range was what caught my attention.

[mdjak1]

What were the symptoms of your defective power tank? Were there other symptoms besides reduced range?


-Don-  Reno, NV

If the power tank battery doesn't get warm when charging after some time, then likely it isn't working.

When I bought my used 2017 FXS modular in 2020, one of the BMS wasn't working and thus one battery didn't charge.  I noticed that one battery didn't get warm when charging.   Between that, lack of range and lack of high enough kWh reading after a full charge, those were all signs something was wrong with one battery.

Even now with the BMS replaced and both batteries working, I have notice that one battery gets warmer than the other while charging.  The warmer battery is the one that always worked.  But I'm not sure whether that means that one is more degraded than the other or what?

[Alan. Yes THAT Alan]

It's me again.
I've been riding around town for the past few months, and my city-driving range seems to be right around 112 miles per charge. I don't actually ride that far. I get to about 20-25% (85-90 miles) before recharging. This is the 13 kwh main battery plus the 2.9 kwh powertank battery for a total of 15.9 kwh.
 Just a bit more than half of the 197-mile range that Zero advertised.

 I just read the post about touching the powertank battery to see if it gets warm when charging. I'll try that later. But I have another question: I got my cellphone bluetoothed to the motorcycle, and can't find much information there that isn't already displayed on the dashboard. Both show that the battery is 100% charged. Is there any way to see how many kilowatt-hours are stored up in both of the batteries when they're charged?

[mdjak1]

Is there any way to see how many kilowatt-hours are stored up in both of the batteries when they're charged?

Assuming that you are just using the on board charger, you could run the battery down to 50% or 25% or some other known percentage.   Then plug it into a Kill-A-Watt meter and charge up to 100%.   The Kill-A-Watt will show you how many kWh you put into the battery.   So if you put in 7 kWh at a 50% battery level, then you know that your nominal battery capacity is 14 kWh.   

On my 2017 FXS 6.5 modular, I keep a spreadsheet record of my SOC, distance traveled, kWh input, estimated nominal battery capacity and miles per kWh.    It does vary.    Below is a screenshot of the spreadsheet.  I'd put in the data as a table but I have no idea how to use the table format here.

[Richard230]

It's me again.
I've been riding around town for the past few months, and my city-driving range seems to be right around 112 miles per charge. I don't actually ride that far. I get to about 20-25% (85-90 miles) before recharging. This is the 13 kwh main battery plus the 2.9 kwh powertank battery for a total of 15.9 kwh.
 Just a bit more than half of the 197-mile range that Zero advertised.

 I just read the post about touching the powertank battery to see if it gets warm when charging. I'll try that later. But I have another question: I got my cellphone bluetoothed to the motorcycle, and can't find much information there that isn't already displayed on the dashboard. Both show that the battery is 100% charged. Is there any way to see how many kilowatt-hours are stored up in both of the batteries when they're charged?

That kWh information was provided in an app during 2014, but then disappeared about a year later when Zero updated the app again.

BTW, my 2018 with PT usually shows a range of 180 miles when I start up in the morning. After riding 38 miles at 2/3 city speeds and 1/3 freeway speeds it still shows around 100 miles of range left at 70% SOC. And no "magic charging" either. But do I actually believe that range? Not really. 

[Alan. Yes THAT Alan]

I just now hooked my laptop to the OBDI2 port and looked at the stats. Attached is a screenshot.
It looks like the main battery has 101 amp-hours at 115.6 volts. 101x115.6=11.67 kilowatt-hours.
And the powerpack battery has 18 AH at 115.6v, giving 2.08 kwh.
Both combined = 13.75 kwh.

  Am I interpreting everything correctly?

[DonTom]

BTW, my 2018 with PT usually shows a range of 180 miles when I start up in the morning. After riding 38 miles at 2/3 city speeds and 1/3 freeway speeds it still shows around 100 miles of range left at 70% SOC. And no "magic charging" either. But do I actually believe that range? Not really. 

"Range" assumes conditions will NOT change at all. If you want to get better range indicated, start out going downhill in the same direction as the wind.  If you want to see worse range indicated, ride in the opposite direction. 


IMO,"range" is rather useless. Perhaps the best way to figure out range is how many miles you get per SOC. If you get 1 mile per SOC that is 100 miles of range. If you get two miles per SOC that is 200 miles of range. IOW, multiply SOC by the mile range you get per SOC. It will be a much better average.


The problem with range is that it assumes you will not go back the same way with the opposite conditions. IMO, it is best to never look at range unless you're on level ground with no wind the entire trip and will have the exact same conditions on the return trip.


-Don-  Wasco, CA