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[NEW2elec]

Here's Bill from the EV Rider channel talking about Zero's 107 million from Polaris.
Plus it's the first time I've heard a sells figure.  About 20k bikes so not bad.

[DonTom]

Here's Bill from the EV Rider channel talking about Zero's 107 million from Polaris.Plus it's the first time I've heard a sells figure.  About 20k bikes so not bad.

I am not sure if that is good news or not.


Here in the Reno area, J-1772 is everywhere and free.  CCS is VERY unreliable. Many stations broken for around a year (such as the only CCS in Fallon, NV)


I take my 2017 Zero SR and charge it at 8 KW (sometimes I hog two J-plugs). That's almost three times the charge rate of my Energica on J-1772.


So I take my Zero where J-1772 is more common and my Energica where CCS is more common.




What I am afraid will happen is if Zero goes to CCS, they will only have 3KW AC chargers--if not as bad as Harley and have a useless 1.4 KW AC charger. If they can have CCS and at least a 6KW AC charger then they will really have something worth looking into.




-Don-  Reno, NV

[Moto7575]

I already knew it : the last digits of your bike's VIN is the number of units sold.
My old Zero XU 2011 was #44. My 2021 SRF et 17200. What about yours ?

[MikeL]

Here in the Reno area, J-1772 is everywhere and free.  CCS is VERY unreliable. Many stations broken for around a year (such as the only CCS in Fallon, NV)

I take my 2017 Zero SR and charge it at 8 KW (sometimes I hog two J-plugs). That's almost three times the charge rate of my Energica on J-1772.

So I take my Zero where J-1772 is more common and my Energica where CCS is more common.

What I am afraid will happen is if Zero goes to CCS, they will only have 3KW AC chargers--if not as bad as Harley and have a useless 1.4 KW AC charger. If they can have CCS and at least a 6KW AC charger then they will really have something worth looking into.

-Don-  Reno, NV

Well, since Zero has a ~6kw AC charger already in a 'charge tank' package, I would assume if they went CCS they would keep 1 6.6kw AC charger. Imagine Zero's new DSR/X with CCS and a 6.6kw option. That motorcycle would be far more tempting.

Which makes me wonder why Energica hasn't upgraded to a 6kw charger. Is it just a size issue? Or does Zero have some sort of monopoly on the system?

I've always been curious as to what components are added to a motorcycle to enable CCS beyond the charge port. Do you need some big charging hardware for CCS? My understanding is it's a direct line into the pack and the 'charger' is the actual charge station you pull up to.

[TheRan]

Here in the Reno area, J-1772 is everywhere and free.  CCS is VERY unreliable. Many stations broken for around a year (such as the only CCS in Fallon, NV)

I take my 2017 Zero SR and charge it at 8 KW (sometimes I hog two J-plugs). That's almost three times the charge rate of my Energica on J-1772.

So I take my Zero where J-1772 is more common and my Energica where CCS is more common.

What I am afraid will happen is if Zero goes to CCS, they will only have 3KW AC chargers--if not as bad as Harley and have a useless 1.4 KW AC charger. If they can have CCS and at least a 6KW AC charger then they will really have something worth looking into.

-Don-  Reno, NV

Well, since Zero has a ~6kw AC charger already in a 'charge tank' package, I would assume if they went CCS they would keep 1 6.6kw AC charger. Imagine Zero's new DSR/X with CCS and a 6.6kw option. That motorcycle would be far more tempting.

Which makes me wonder why Energica hasn't upgraded to a 6kw charger. Is it just a size issue? Or does Zero have some sort of monopoly on the system?

I've always been curious as to what components are added to a motorcycle to enable CCS beyond the charge port. Do you need some big charging hardware for CCS? My understanding is it's a direct line into the pack and the 'charger' is the actual charge station you pull up to.

I'm pretty sure that's the way it works, technically using the Anderson port on the older Zeros with the Quiq charger (or anything else you can cobble together) is pretty much the same thing. You could in theory use a Chademo to Anderson adapter if you're lucky enough to find a station that goes down to a low enough voltage. Whether Zero could keep the same level of AC charging would just depend on how large the chargers would be for them to support the higher voltage, perhaps someone could check out some of the OEMs to see what they offer.

[DonTom]

I've always been curious as to what components are added to a motorcycle to enable CCS beyond the charge port. Do you need some big charging hardware for CCS? My understanding is it's a direct line into the pack and the 'charger' is the actual charge station you pull up to.

I would assume nothing other than some high voltage high current wiring to the battery's BMS (which is inside the battery). I cannot see any need for anything else as I think the CCS charger's FW figures out what to do from there.


-Don-  Reno, NV

[Skidz]

AFAIK, CCS minimum voltage is 200V and the Zero's battery tops out at ~116V so this could be achieved in two ways: Completely redesign the drivetrain to run more than 200V, or use a DC-capable charger that would accept 110/230V AC for level 2 chargers or 200v and upwards DC for level 3 charging. Since CCS appears to use a direct battery connection, the DC-DC option is not as simple as it sounds... Sure hope they'll incorporate CCS, it would make the pool of motorcycles i'd consider for the next bikes a bit bigger.

[Richard230]

Wouldn't Zero need a new high voltage motor and battery pack if they wanted to start using CCS?

[DonTom]

Wouldn't Zero need a new high voltage motor and battery pack if they wanted to start using CCS?

They would have to redesign the entire bike, IMO. At least all the electrical stuff. Different motor, different battery, different DC2DCC, different MBB and more.


But perhaps now is a good time for them to start such a project.


-Don-  Reno, NV

[NEW2elec]

The guess is they will use a DC-DC converter to get it to work.

[DonTom]

The guess is they will use a DC-DC converter to get it to work.

You mean with their old battery? That would have to be a large DC2DCC and it would have to let the Commnications from the BMS to get to the charger somehow. And there will be some other issues. I kinda doubt they will do that. They should start with a higher voltage battery, IMO.


-Don-  Reno, NV

[TheRan]

The guess is they will use a DC-DC converter to get it to work.

Could add a fair bit of weight and require some space. As an example I found a 15kW converter that would do the trick and it weighs 20kg and is quite large. It may be a bit oversized for the requirements though. Also it's liquid cooled and 94% efficient, that means at full capacity it's got to get rid of nearly 1kW of heat.

https://www.zekalabs.com/products/isolated-power-converters/dc-dc-isolated-converter-15kw-450v

[DonTom]

Could add a fair bit of weight and require some space. As an example I found a 15kW converter that would do the trick and it weighs 20kg and is quite large. It may be a bit oversized for the requirements though. Also it's liquid cooled and 94% efficient, that means at full capacity it's got to get rid of nearly 1kW of heat.

Yep, which more battery cells could make better use of than wasting 6% in heat.


-Don-  Reno, NV

[SandyGnomes]

Wouldn't it basically be the ac charger without a rectifier?  Comms are weird for ccs but done over the CP line and there's plenty of stuff out there to do that, and there must be existing circuitry to read the old CP stuff and pass that to the chargers/bms.

[TheRan]

Wouldn't it basically be the ac charger without a rectifier?  Comms are weird for ccs but done over the CP line and there's plenty of stuff out there to do that, and there must be existing circuitry to read the old CP stuff and pass that to the chargers/bms.

Well if you only wanted like 1.3kW or 6.6kW then the DC-DC converter would probably be similar in size to the existing OBCs (if that's the point you were trying to make), but then you're not gaining anything unless there are no AC chargers where you are and DC is your only option. Perhaps there exists a device that can pull double duty as an AC charger and DC-DC convertor.