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[Richard230]

I can't recall seeing if the X has a backup feature as standard. At that weight it could use one.

It just occurred to me that it will be interesting to see a side-by-side comparison (hopefully published by someone other than the Noob  ) between the Energica Experia and the DSR/X. Both models seem quite comparable in both features, weight, power and price - if not styling and the ability to DC charge.

[MVetter]

It just occurred to me that it will be interesting to see a side-by-side comparison (hopefully published by someone other than the Noob  ) between the Energica Experia and the DSR/X. Both models seem quite comparable in both features, weight, power and price - if not styling and the ability to DC charge.

I spent some time crunching some numbers yesterday. The DSR/X's base price is $24,495 and the Experia's Launch Edition (all the bells and whistles) price is $25,880. But the DSR/X at that price doesn't come with anything. No racks, no luggage, blah blah blah. I added those, the Rapid Charger, Scott Harkless' Dual J mod, chain kit, and windscreen to get them as similar as I could. This is what I came up with:

[flynnstig82r]

Zero: Yesterday's technology at tomorrow's prices!

Yes, the mantle is being passed! Well, maybe shared.

[Richard230]

Electrek has jumped on the bandwagon with this article. What they didn't bother to mention was the existence of the Energica Experia when they said that the DSR/X is "The first long-range electric adventure motorcycle". Here is a link to their article: https://electrek.co/2022/09/13/zero-dsr-x-launched-as-worlds-first-long-range-electric-adventure-motorcycle/

[mdjak1]

Electrek has jumped on the bandwagon with this article. What they didn't bother to mention was the existence of the Energica Experia when they said that the DSR/X is "The first long-range electric adventure motorcycle". Here is a link to their article: https://electrek.co/2022/09/13/zero-dsr-x-launched-as-worlds-first-long-range-electric-adventure-motorcycle/

With a 17" front wheel on the Experia, perhaps they are considering it more of a sport touring bike?

[DonTom]

Does the new Zero have a reverse?


That is a big reason for me to go with Energica.


-Don-  Auburn, CA

[Fran K]

Does the new Zero have a reverse?


That is a big reason for me to go with Energica.


-Don-  Auburn, CA

I believe what Zero has done is take the DSR letter code for a model and moved it to the newer platform, gen 3, the one they ran up pikes peak lately.  So chances would seem that for a price and agreeing to terms and conditions .. it has a reverse.  Just a guess.

The video talks about how quiet it is.
The traction control would be a good topic for another video.

[Richard230]

Does the new Zero have a reverse?


That is a big reason for me to go with Energica.


-Don-  Auburn, CA

Here is what the Electrek article says:

Another interesting feature found on the bike is Park Mode, which offers both forward and reverse control that is speed and torque limited. When wiggling around the 544-pound (247 kg) bike on even a slight grade, a reverse mode is a godsend.

A new hill hold feature keeps the bike in its position when stopping on a hill, letting riders take their hand or foot off the brake without rolling.

[ZeroBrian]

It just occurred to me that it will be interesting to see a side-by-side comparison (hopefully published by someone other than the Noob  ) between the Energica Experia and the DSR/X. Both models seem quite comparable in both features, weight, power and price - if not styling and the ability to DC charge.

I spent some time crunching some numbers yesterday. The DSR/X's base price is $24,495 and the Experia's Launch Edition (all the bells and whistles) price is $25,880. But the DSR/X at that price doesn't come with anything. No racks, no luggage, blah blah blah. I added those, the Rapid Charger, Scott Harkless' Dual J mod, chain kit, and windscreen to get them as similar as I could. This is what I came up with:

Some corrections, Morgan.  Understood that you're favoring the Experia, which is your prerogative.  The DSR/X is not a "launch edition" - it's just one version, currently in serial production and shipping to dealers.  Looking forward to the skeptics throwing a leg over and trying for themselves.  It's impossible to convince people how good this bike really is (including the journalists) until they test ride it.  The DSR/X has off-road capabilities that no other electric motorcycle offers with almost 10 inches of ground clearance, 7.5" of travel, 19" front wheel, and the most advanced off-road traction control and ABS that Bosch currently offers with their 10.3ME system.  All other electric motorcycles, including our SR/F and SR/S are using the 9 series system.  It also has 28 liters (7.4 gallons) of on-board storage WITHOUT any accessory luggage.  For this reason, we believe this is the first true electric adventure bike vs. other bikes that would be classified as "sport" or "sport touring" motorcycles.  Most owners may not use the bike's offroad capabilities, but this is no different from other motorcycles in this category (or other categories for this matter). 

Richard, the DSR/X comes with a park mode which is a slow speed reverse and forward creep that you can quickly toggle back and forth between. 

The belt is rated for full off-road use and there was not a single issue with a belt in 100s of journalist and dealer rides.  The new belt system is over 2.5X stronger than the belt used on the SR/F and SR/S, which is in turn much stronger than that used on the older DSR platform.  The rear sprocket is a ported sprocket, which allows debris to escape, and there are additional belt guards in place to prevent the debris from finding its way in to begin with.  But... we do have a chain kit if someone really can't be convinced.  All our test riders, which race MX and hare scrambles on weekends, choose the belt drive when testing the bike. 

The windscreen is certainly included in the price and is fully adjustable, so it will work for most riders.  The touring screen tends to be preferred by riders over 6' tall. 

I learned at the launch event in Sicily from a journalist that spent significant time on bikes with CCS/DCFC that the 22kW charge power is overstated as he mentioned in most cases his bike would only charge at 4-6kW due to battery temperature limits.  So... CCS certainly expands the available infrastructure (by ~10%) one can use and provides higher peaks in ideal conditions, but I wonder if this inconvenient truth about other factors tends to be left out of other OEs marketing talking points...

Carry on... 

[MikeL]

Some corrections, Morgan.  Understood that you're favoring the Experia, which is your prerogative.  The DSR/X is not a "launch edition" - it's just one version, currently in serial production and shipping to dealers.  Looking forward to the skeptics throwing a leg over and trying for themselves.  It's impossible to convince people how good this bike really is (including the journalists) until they test ride it.  The DSR/X has off-road capabilities that no other electric motorcycle offers with almost 10 inches of ground clearance, 7.5" of travel, 19" front wheel, and the most advanced off-road traction control and ABS that Bosch currently offers with their 10.3ME system.  All other electric motorcycles, including our SR/F and SR/S are using the 9 series system.  It also has 28 liters (7.4 gallons) of on-board storage WITHOUT any accessory luggage.  For this reason, we believe this is the first true electric adventure bike vs. other bikes that would be classified as "sport" or "sport touring" motorcycles.  Most owners may not use the bike's offroad capabilities, but this is no different from other motorcycles in this category (or other categories for this matter). 

Richard, the DSR/X comes with a park mode which is a slow speed reverse and forward creep that you can quickly toggle back and forth between. 

The belt is rated for full off-road use and there was not a single issue with a belt in 100s of journalist and dealer rides.  The new belt system is over 2.5X stronger than the belt used on the SR/F and SR/S, which is in turn much stronger than that used on the older DSR platform.  The rear sprocket is a ported sprocket, which allows debris to escape, and there are additional belt guards in place to prevent the debris from finding its way in to begin with.  But... we do have a chain kit if someone really can't be convinced.  All our test riders, which race MX and hare scrambles on weekends, choose the belt drive when testing the bike. 

The windscreen is certainly included in the price and is fully adjustable, so it will work for most riders.  The touring screen tends to be preferred by riders over 6' tall. 

I learned at the launch event in Sicily from a journalist that spent significant time on bikes with CCS/DCFC that the 22kW charge power is overstated as he mentioned in most cases his bike would only charge at 4-6kW due to battery temperature limits.  So... CCS certainly expands the available infrastructure (by ~10%) one can use and provides higher peaks in ideal conditions, but I wonder if this inconvenient truth about other factors tends to be left out of other OEs marketing talking points...

Carry on... 

Appreciate the response and additional information. It's always nice to hear directly from those involved.

If I wanted to take a test ride, when will demo bikes reach dealers? Or is the game plan to deliver customer bikes first?

Also, I do think styling wise it looks great. It's grown on me the more I've looked at it.

[MVetter]

Some corrections, Morgan.  Understood that you're favoring the Experia, which is your prerogative.  The DSR/X is not a "launch edition" - it's just one version, currently in serial production and shipping to dealers.  Looking forward to the skeptics throwing a leg over and trying for themselves.  It's impossible to convince people how good this bike really is (including the journalists) until they test ride it.  The DSR/X has off-road capabilities that no other electric motorcycle offers with almost 10 inches of ground clearance, 7.5" of travel, 19" front wheel, and the most advanced off-road traction control and ABS that Bosch currently offers with their 10.3ME system.  All other electric motorcycles, including our SR/F and SR/S are using the 9 series system.  It also has 28 liters (7.4 gallons) of on-board storage WITHOUT any accessory luggage.  For this reason, we believe this is the first true electric adventure bike vs. other bikes that would be classified as "sport" or "sport touring" motorcycles.  Most owners may not use the bike's offroad capabilities, but this is no different from other motorcycles in this category (or other categories for this matter). 

Hey Brian. I only used the term "Launch Edition" because that is the only Experia option at this time; that's literally what the purchase option is called. There will probably be more announcements for additional options at EICMA, but right now there is only the Launch Edition Experia. And that option is a fully loaded one with luggage racks etc.

What I wrote was in no way meant to be a dig on the DSR/X. I am very much looking forward to trying one out; I even went to my local Zero dealer yesterday to inquire. They said they expect one in the next 30 days. The two bikes are attempting to attract similar but different segments of the market; there will be some overlap and competition as people are going to want to put the bikes side by side. The DSR/X very much has suspension and ground clearance meant for offroad while the Experia clearly does not. I feel my spreadsheet/graphic is fair, especially for what I suspect will be chiefly road-going owners of the DSR/X. This is just me speculating but I'll bet 90% of future DSR/X owners never take it on a dirt road.

That being said I'd love to see y'all redo this but with DSR/X bikes:

[DonTom]

Here is what the Electrek article says:

Another interesting feature found on the bike is Park Mode, which offers both forward and reverse control that is speed and torque limited. When wiggling around the 544-pound (247 kg) bike on even a slight grade, a reverse mode is a godsend.

A new hill hold feature keeps the bike in its position when stopping on a hill, letting riders take their hand or foot off the brake without rolling.

Spounds like some great improvements!


My Bullet Brake works very well as a hill hold on my Zeros as well as on my Energica.


I plan on putting a BB on my Experica on whatever year I receive it! If I am still alive by then!


BTW, do you know whatever happened to your girlfriend in Santa Cruz, Crissa? She has not been online for many months.


-Don-  Auburn, CA

[sharagan]

The information regarding charging and the battery capacity on the Zero website is rather confusing (I suppose intentionally). Max capacity is  17.3 kWh, nominal 15.2 kWh, but supposedly charged to 95% within 60 minutes with a 12.6 kW charging setup. Not to mention the times to 110%. ...I know that this is their way of masking the pay to unlock features and all I can see is a tried and proven tactic....if you can not convince them, confuse them. BTW. they forgot to mention the continuous power of 48 HP.

If a capacity of a battery is given, that should be 100% and that is the maximum literally and not 110% and with no mention to which value this percentage is related to.

The charge time to 95% within an hour at 12.6 kw suggests a 14.4 battery. As does the range (80 Miles at 70 MPH) compared to a 14.4 DSR (78 Miles at 70 MPH).
The 14.4 is also the max capacity so I really do not understand the 17.3 and 15.2 claims.

They should clearly state the Ah value or kWh value, which you get with the price paid for the motorcycle and simple and clear information on the charge time to that value (which is 100%) at the time of purchase.

[TheRan]

The DSR/X comes with all the Cypher unlocks included (battery capacity and charging speed, as well as the on dash navigation and parking mode) so I don't get why they would gives specs for a configuration that doesn't exist.

[sharagan]

95% of 15.2 is 14.4....how do you get that from a 12.6 kw charger in an hour? And no charger is 100% effective, so I doubt it will supply the whole 12.6kw.

the capacity could be calculated with the consumption and the rated range at a given speed, but they opted to give it in empg instead of kw per mile.