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[Richard230]

My 2018 S has always had an odd feature. When charging with the OBC, if I allow it to run until the charging light turns solid and then pull the plug after about 10 minutes, the light will continue to shine until I turn on the ignition, at which point I will get two clicks upon turning off the ignition and the light will finally go off. If I just happen to catch it and disconnect the power cord shortly after the charging program ends then I will hear a click and the charging light will go off as it should. I have watched the power draw using the Kill-A-Watt meter and it will drop from 1300+ watts to 4 watts in a couple of seconds without tapering off once the charging light stops blinking.

However, when I charge using the DeltaQ, which charges at a little over 1000 watts, when the bike's green charging light stops blinking, the power draw to the DeltaQ will slowly decrease in steps down to around 350 watts for another half hour or so, after the charging light turns solid and the power will drop to 4 watts. I assume the battery pack cells are being balanced during that time, Upon disconnecting its power plug, the charging light goes off without a click (that I can hear).

It is kind of odd that the two chargers would seem to charge the battery pack differently. It makes me wonder if the DeltaQ bypasses the bike's BMS, which on my bike seems to have a quirk in its programming that causes the green charging light to stay of after the OBC shuts down.   

[MVetter]

No, it does not bypass the BMS. The two units do, however send the charge signal in an entirely different way. The OBC has an orange-faced rectangular plug with like 24 pins in that I've always head referred to as the MXJ connector. It allows the OBC to interface with the CAN lines. There are also two lines on there that send the bike's enable signal to put it into charge mode and enable cell balancing, etc. The BMS does cell balancing, so the idea of the DeltaQ bypassing it doesn't fly there.

The Delta Q plugs into the bike's Aux port, the large brown SBS75XBRN Anderson plug to the left of the rear shock. If you look closely you'll see two small pins in between the large DC leads. These are the Aux enable pins that send the charge signal to the bike go let the BMS know the bike is in charge mode and balance when appropriate.

The difference between these two signals is that the OBC's CAN interface allows the bike to be 'woken up' by attaching a power cable even if the bike is off, and initiate a charge. You cannot do that with the Aux enable signal pins. That's why if you have your bike turned off you can't simply plug in the Delta Q and have it charge. Bike has to be on first, then turn on the Delta Q which will establish an enable signal, and then you can key the bike off and walk away.

[Richard230]

That is what I do and it works perfectly.  I just don't understand why the OBC shuts down without tapering the charge like the DeltaQ does. And why the green charge light will stay on forever when topped off with the OBC unless I turn the ignition on and then back off again. Very strange. My old 2014 S never did that. I might add that this is my second OBC and it is a new model, but both the old version and the new one would keep the blinking green charge light on once it turned a solid green. So there must be something going on with the programming of the BMS on my bike. 

[DonTom]

That is what I do and it works perfectly.  I just don't understand why the OBC shuts down without tapering the charge like the DeltaQ does. And why the green charge light will stay on forever when topped off with the OBC unless I turn the ignition on and then back off again. Very strange. My old 2014 S never did that. I might add that this is my second OBC and it is a new model, but both the old version and the new one would keep the blinking green charge light on once it turned a solid green. So there must be something going on with the programming of the BMS on my bike. 

Both my Zeros will have a solid on green light when the charge is completed. It will blink until the charge is completed and then stays on solid.


This "tapering down" of the DeltalQ, can you describe that better? Mine either charges with the top green light on or else stops charging with the bottom two lights flashing. IIRC, the bottom one stays on solid and the one just above blinks. The other lights only are on for a fraction of a second when I start the DeltaQ charge when the OBC is on.


-Don-  Reno, NV

[Richard230]

That is what I do and it works perfectly.  I just don't understand why the OBC shuts down without tapering the charge like the DeltaQ does. And why the green charge light will stay on forever when topped off with the OBC unless I turn the ignition on and then back off again. Very strange. My old 2014 S never did that. I might add that this is my second OBC and it is a new model, but both the old version and the new one would keep the blinking green charge light on once it turned a solid green. So there must be something going on with the programming of the BMS on my bike. 

Both my Zeros will have a solid on green light when the charge is completed. It will blink until the charge is completed and then stays on solid.


This "tapering down" of the DeltalQ, can you describe that better? Mine either charges with the top green light on or else stops charging with the bottom two lights flashing. IIRC, the bottom one stays on solid and the one just above blinks. The other lights only are on for a fraction of a second when I start the DeltaQ charge when the OBC is on.


-Don-  Reno, NV

I have only tried charging with both the DeltaQ and the OBC at the same time once. While it worked fine and charged the bike almost twice as fast as the OBC alone, when disconnecting the power cords to both chargers the green light on the dash continued to stay on until I cycled the ignition on and off and got the good old double click. That was just a test run for me as I have never needed to fast charge my Zero since I only use it for local day trips and can recharge it early the next morning before going on another ride the following day.

Regarding the DeltaQ charging indicator lights, they are kind of fun to watch. When bulk charging I get a solid amber light. When the charge indicates 100% on the dash, the green light turns on above the amber light, which also stays on. Then the 100% charge light starts flashing on the DeltaQ and the power draw starts dropping. When that happens the dash charging light stops blinking and turns a solid green. The DeltaQ instructions say that the charger has now completed the "absorption phase" and is in the "finish phase". During that phase the power from the wall drops from 1000 watts to 850 watts, to 650 watts then to 350 watts until the power drops to 4 watts and all of the green and amber lights on the DeltaQ become solid. The "finish phase" lasts for about 20-30 minutes after the charge light on the dash turns a solid green. 

I once left the DeltaQ connected for an hour after it had fully charged the bike and shut off. That was when I noticed a flashing red light, along with the yellow and green lights, indicating a "charging error", which worried me until I pulled the plug and the all of the lights turned off. Once I did that everything was OK and the green charge light on the dash went out without needing to cycle the ignition. So I guess the red light just means that it is time to unplug the DeltaQ and it is getting tired sucking up those 4 watts to keep the lights on. 

Frankly, the DeltaQ is more fun to watch in operation than is the OBC and makes for a nice hand warmer when operating as its cooling fins get kind of toasty when it is operating.  But needing to crawl around the bottom of the bike to plug in that big brown DeltaQ connector is not very convenient. I don't suppose that Zero could have placed the auxiliary connector on the side of the bike like they did with my old 2012 model? That would make connecting an auxiliary charger much easier. But I guess there is some reason that they located where they did. 

[MVetter]

Regarding the DeltaQ charging indicator lights, they are kind of fun to watch.

I can't wait until you see your first traffic light. It's going to absolutely blow. your. mind.

[DonTom]

But needing to crawl around the bottom of the bike to plug in that big brown DeltaQ connector is not very convenient.

Easy to fix that. You can either make your own extension cables, but the easy way is to buy the Zero dual cable for the DeltaQ:

I can charge my 2017 Zero SR at 10 KW. Two Delta Q's plus two 3.3 KW extremal chargers plus OBC.


-Don-  Reno, NV

[DonTom]

I have only tried charging with both the DeltaQ and the OBC at the same time once.

Other than charging with the top and bottom light on, or fully charged with the bottom two lights on, what is the longest you have seen the DeltaQ in any other mode?


Less than a second for any of my seven Delta Q's on either my 2017 SR or 2017 DS.


-Don-  Reno, NV

[Richard230]

I have only tried charging with both the DeltaQ and the OBC at the same time once.

Other than charging with the top and bottom light on, or fully charged with the bottom two lights on, what is the longest you have seen the DeltaQ in any other mode?


Less than a second for any of my seven Delta Q's on either my 2017 SR or 2017 DS.


-Don-  Reno, NV

The blinking green light above the yellow bulk charging light lasts for about 20-30 minutes before it turns a solid green, as i recall. The time that i saw the red light was when I hadn't looked at the DeltaQ for about an hour after it apparently had finished the charging program. That red light stayed on until I disconnected the power cord.

[Skidz]

Back in the days (Last year ) I had my OBC on a power plug monitoring current and voltage (And thus wattage) and the OBC in my case started tapering at 96%ish on my MY16 DSR-ZF13.

[Richard230]

Back in the days (Last year ) I had my OBC on a power plug monitoring current and voltage (And thus wattage) and the OBC in my case started tapering at 96%ish on my MY16 DSR-ZF13.

My recollection is that the MY14 Zero S that I used to own would slow down every 20% while charging to apparently balance the battery cells and then pick up bulk charging again. Once it got near 100% the charging rate would slow down again to balance the cells before shutting off. That is why I was interested in my bike's charging program when I didn't see that same thing happening with the OBC, but then did see it with the DeltaQ while watching the power draw from the Kill-A-Watt meter. No doubt Zero has made a number of revisions over the years with their BMS programming.

[dannsky]

No, it does not bypass the BMS. The two units do, however send the charge signal in an entirely different way. The OBC has an orange-faced rectangular plug with like 24 pins in that I've always head referred to as the MXJ connector. It allows the OBC to interface with the CAN lines. There are also two lines on there that send the bike's enable signal to put it into charge mode and enable cell balancing, etc. The BMS does cell balancing, so the idea of the DeltaQ bypassing it doesn't fly there.

The Delta Q plugs into the bike's Aux port, the large brown SBS75XBRN Anderson plug to the left of the rear shock. If you look closely you'll see two small pins in between the large DC leads. These are the Aux enable pins that send the charge signal to the bike go let the BMS know the bike is in charge mode and balance when appropriate.

The difference between these two signals is that the OBC's CAN interface allows the bike to be 'woken up' by attaching a power cable even if the bike is off, and initiate a charge. You cannot do that with the Aux enable signal pins. That's why if you have your bike turned off you can't simply plug in the Delta Q and have it charge. Bike has to be on first, then turn on the Delta Q which will establish an enable signal, and then you can key the bike off and walk away.

I don't have a DeltaQ charger. But I have a homemade charger that I would like to use. How can I simulate the process of starting charging using the central pins of the Anderson 75 connector? What resistance should I connect to these auxiliary connectors to make it clear to the BMS that an external charger is connected?

[MVetter]

What's your homemade charger's HVC set at

[dannsky]

What's your homemade charger's HVC set at

The maximum current is 34A, but it is regulated from 3A. What do you say about the control contacts of the Anderson connector?

[MVetter]

That is not what I asked