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[yhafting]

During the summer ive experienced some minor and lately a couple potential major hickups with my SS9+ that recently passed 15kkm.

1: First there is the key not in range warning, which usually occured once per stop most of the rides.
2:Then there is the MIL light showing up on occation (no error code, so it could mostly be cleared toggeling go 4 times)
3: Then lately the bike has had a some "undefined fault" causing regeneration to stop (ie coast to stop) + MIL light, but no error code. Actually i was sort of desperate when it happened so i turned bike on and off before checking the status page in the preferences menu- and then there were no error, and MIL could be cleared by toggling go 4 times.
4: At last i have also noticed some times that the bike has had issues with SOC at or below approximately 50%. Some times when applying throttle i get very little output, and i don't think it is the throttle in it self malfunctioning, since the christmas tree lights show up when properly turned towards maximum, as it does in any mode- only that i only get a fraction of the power output - which the bike displays on the green/red bar as there is little throttle input. Example: urban mode, full throttle for 3-5 seconds starting at ~70km/h ending at perhaps 90km/h- all christmas tree lights show up, but by the looks of the power indicator and speed, only a handful electrons were applied to boost the bike speed. Now exactly how much throttle limitation varies- some times hardly any, other times almost as usual, all during the same ride.

3- it seems i can relate to the bike having been charged fully, and then regenerating to slow down/stop the bike mostly at 97 or 98 % and once at 88% (with passenger).
4- is something i have wondered if was the case a few times on longer trips, but it is really only once last week ive deliberately tested it rolling on 100% several times in both urban and sport mode.

Now the last week when testing 4, i also drove the bike down to 1% before charging. This is the first time i have done that, since i mostly commute for some 40% each day (and it is convenient to have a fully charged bike every day because i sometimes forget to charge when i park the bike for the day- which means i have just 1 day i can forget charging).

Now after last week going down to 1% i tried as follows:
A: i charged the bike to full
B: I turned off regen until 95% before i took it back to low setting which i prefer.
C: The next few chargings during this week i charged to 95% (at 3A rate) keeping regen on.
D: Yesterday i forgot charging so i had the bike well below 30% SOC on my way home.

Now this week: 0 faults, No MIL, No key out of range messages, and the bike behaved well today at down to 27% SOC when i plugged it in.

Today i will charge to 100% (as once per week) again, but I'm curious to whether my observations are coincidental or not?
Could it really be that taking the bike to 1% fixes (all or) some of these issues? (It just seems unlikely). 

Thoughts that can shed light on this will be appreciated!

[Hans2183]

I doubt riding it to 1 or 0% and then charge will help much with the regen/MIL/throttle issue. I have literally ridden only once to 0% in the 18k km I have this bike now and I also never had that regen issue you describe.

My typical behaviour on the road is to start at 100% AC overnight at home, riding down to 30-50% and charge back up to 80% on DC. That is about once a week. The other days I just stay within that SOC range and charge back up at home overnight to 100%. If I leave the country for a few days I set a charge limit to 90% and let it sit for weeks that way.

Regen for me is non existing (or very low) at 100-97%, I ride at regen level 1 since half a year or so. Before that I used level 2.

What FW version are you on? I have version 41. Not sure if something new is already available but I'll report back once I had mine service at 20k.

All these issues, except for the keyless, could be down to the same component. Throttle is serious enough for a CEL, it is linked to regen and you mention the strange behaviour on low SOC.

[yhafting]

I doubt riding it to 1 or 0% and then charge will help much with the regen/MIL/throttle issue. I have literally ridden only once to 0% in the 18k km I have this bike now and I also never had that regen issue you describe.

My typical behaviour on the road is to start at 100% AC overnight at home, riding down to 30-50% and charge back up to 80% on DC. That is about once a week. The other days I just stay within that SOC range and charge back up at home overnight to 100%. If I leave the country for a few days I set a charge limit to 90% and let it sit for weeks that way.

Regen for me is non existing (or very low) at 100-97%, I ride at regen level 1 since half a year or so. Before that I used level 2.

What FW version are you on? I have version 41. Not sure if something new is already available but I'll report back once I had mine service at 20k.

All these issues, except for the keyless, could be down to the same component. Throttle is serious enough for a CEL, it is linked to regen and you mention the strange behaviour on low SOC.

Starting at 100% went well today as well. No key warning or other issues. Judging by the rate of issues ive had, going a full week without some minor ones is odd. Ill report if more occurs, but so far taking the bike to 1% seems to have made a difference.

I know at one point there was an advice of taking the bike down to single digit to get better SOC values and range estimates. I might have seen a change there, but that may have had other causes too.

If taking the bike to single digit SOC, really does change the bike behavior, i would not see the benefit before now, as i have always been on the safe side until recently.

Throttle issue seems unlikely unless it actually uses two sensors (one for the "christmas tree lights, and one for  the actual throttle input). Also because the power issues only has been noticable at or below medium SOC.

But then again, ill post again if there are new occurences.

The fw is .041, see picture for full details.

[PWM]

Not good to go beyond say 20% SOC on a regular basis the battery icon goes green to yellow at 39% for good reason and it's all about the state of balance that one should factor how deep to deplete...

The system recalibrates after a full charge and any effect to throttle response is normal low-side cell level safeguard.

Energica is the bomb in BMS - sounds like no harm done.

[jotjotde]

Not good to go beyond say 20% SOC on a regular basis the battery icon goes green to yellow at 39% for good reason and it's all about the state of balance that one should factor how deep to deplete...

The system recalibrates after a full charge and any effect to throttle response is normal low-side cell level safeguard.

Energica is the bomb in BMS - sounds like no harm done.

In the 2018 Manual for the Ribelle on page 91 you can find the following:

It is recommended to discharge the battery until display
of the "Low battery" message and SOC (state of charge)
= 0% every 10-20 normal charging cycles. On reaching 0%
you must recharge the motorcycle as soon as possible.

Don't know if it's also valid for newer models, I have to look into it when I'm at home.

[BigPoppa]

Both my 13kw EsseEsse9 and my Ribelle state(d) this in their owners manuals. I’ve always struggled a bit with this. I left myself stranded about a mile from my house trying to get the bike down to 0% and had to call a tow truck to get it home.

Since then, as long as I get it down to single digits I consider that good enough (I may very well be wrong though). Has anyone figured out an easy way to drain the battery without having to ride it umpteen loops up and down your local street?

Also, I can now say with confidence that the Key Not In Range issue is firmware related. I just got my bike back from it's 6k service where I had the dealer update my firmware. I was 6 versions behind and since taking delivery of the bike, I never had the Key Not In Range message show up. In addition, I could leave the fob in my jacket pocket or hold it about waist to chest high above the bike and it would start without issue.

Since the firmware up date to 41, I now get the Key Not In Range message about twice during my daily commute (each way) and I have to sit the key on the tongue of the seat for the bike to recognize it and start up. My uneducated guess is that somewhere along the line the required signal strength for the key to be recognized was changed to a higher value and never changed back.

[yhafting]

Both my 13kw EsseEsse9 and my Ribelle state(d) this in their owners manuals. I’ve always struggled a bit with this. I left myself stranded about a mile from my house trying to get the bike down to 0% and had to call a tow truck to get it home.

Since then, as long as I get it down to single digits I consider that good enough (I may very well be wrong though). Has anyone figured out an easy way to drain the battery without having to ride it umpteen loops up and down your local street?

Also, I can now say with confidence that the Key Not In Range issue is firmware related. I just got my bike back from it's 6k service where I had the dealer update my firmware. I was 6 versions behind and since taking delivery of the bike, I never had the Key Not In Range message show up. In addition, I could leave the fob in my jacket pocket or hold it about waist to chest high above the bike and it would start without issue.

Since the firmware up date to 41, I now get the Key Not In Range message about twice during my daily commute (each way) and I have to sit the key on the tongue of the seat for the bike to recognize it and start up. My uneducated guess is that somewhere along the line the required signal strength for the key to be recognized was changed to a higher value and never changed back.

This is interesting. I got the key not in range message again today (unusually long since last time), but only once today. Usually when it happens the message occurs after each stop on that trip. Im also sure it is a fw. issue, since i nevery have a problem starting and stopping the bike, despite all those warnings.

Depleting the battery for every 10-20 charge cycle would mean every 2150-4300 km or so. Lets say every 3000 km, then i should have done it 5 times so far having past 15kkm. If i were to do so, that would imply risking taking the bike to 0 both late autumn and spring.. If such an exercise really is necessary, i would suggest finding a way to allow the bike to dump the last few percent of charge by itself (as a programmed option when on a stand and connected to the battery) rather than having the user doing so by riding the bike.   

[DonTom]

Both my 13kw EsseEsse9 and my Ribelle state(d) this in their owners manuals. I’ve always struggled a bit with this. I left myself stranded about a mile from my house trying to get the bike down to 0% and had to call a tow truck to get it home.

How far could you ride after you got to zero SOC?


-Don-  Reno, NV

[SBK74]

Interesting topic. Talking with other riders last Sunday, it was mentioned that the 'Key not in range' issue was related to CPU capacity. On timed interval, the bike checks the presence of the key, however when the CPU is very busy, that task is being disturbed they said.

Now with that information in mind, indeed the message comes often when driving spirited or with speed bumps, that makes the E-ABS has to kick in. It could be that low SOC driving does not trigger TC or E-ABS as much, so the issue is less frequent. Just another point of view.

[BigPoppa]

How far could you ride after you got to zero SOC?

In that case, I got a couple of miles after it hit 0%. It was kind of an odd case since I hadn't drained the bike in a while and while I was about 3 miles from home, the SOC indicator suddenly dropped from the low teens to the low single digits while I was waiting at a light. I suspect in that case, the SOC calibration was way off which is why it completely ran out about a mile from my house when normally I could make it home in limp home mode from the point where the SOC suddenly dropped.

As for the "Key not in range" message being CPU load related, I guess that could be it. The main reason I suspected some other cause is the inability of the bike to recognize my fob on startup from the same distance it recognized the fob before. I wouldn't imagine CPU load to be an issue on start-up but maybe it is.

[tunafish_phd]

How far could you ride after you got to zero SOC?

In that case, I got a couple of miles after it hit 0%. It was kind of an odd case since I hadn't drained the bike in a while and while I was about 3 miles from home, the SOC indicator suddenly dropped from the low teens to the low single digits while I was waiting at a light. I suspect in that case, the SOC calibration was way off which is why it completely ran out about a mile from my house when normally I could make it home in limp home mode from the point where the SOC suddenly dropped.

As for the "Key not in range" message being CPU load related, I guess that could be it. The main reason I suspected some other cause is the inability of the bike to recognize my fob on startup from the same distance it recognized the fob before. I wouldn't imagine CPU load to be an issue on start-up but maybe it is.

I get the "Key not in range" message fairly often. My fob is usually in my backpack or right hand pocket. I notice it a LOT more when its attached to my garage door opener, pretty sure 85% of it is interference with my Garage door opener/phone/outside sources, and 15% my thickness being in the way.

If I'm very specific about putting JUST my fob in my left hand pocket, or a jacket pocket instead, I very very rarely get the error.

[yhafting]

Interesting topic. Talking with other riders last Sunday, it was mentioned that the 'Key not in range' issue was related to CPU capacity. On timed interval, the bike checks the presence of the key, however when the CPU is very busy, that task is being disturbed they said.

Now with that information in mind, indeed the message comes often when driving spirited or with speed bumps, that makes the E-ABS has to kick in. It could be that low SOC driving does not trigger TC or E-ABS as much, so the issue is less frequent. Just another point of view.

Hmm if the key not in range is a CPU capacity issue, that too might explain the throttle issues ive had.
I had throttle issue once today (perhaps more, but one time i am 100% sure). Today, i had one time i rolled on throttle with almost no response (it felt like a gas car when the air filter is clogged). After that, the throttle worked mostly as expected, although it is hard to tell, as it is mostly noticable when i ask for rather much power quickly (ie not so much during commute).

If the CPU is not able to service the throttle during riding, the firmware needs a thorough revision. Of course i cannot tell if there are more than one issue on my bike, but a CPU running too much could be an explanation. I wonder if there are ways to reduce the number of service algorithms run. If there is such an issue, removing something unimportant (bluetooth/ etc) may help a lot. Then again, I hope they have not put the same CPU servicing bluetooth, keys and throttle, but that would explain a lot.

What we need then is a way to reduce CPU load to see if that does help...

I would live happy without Bluetooth/ GPS/ connection to phone. I could safely go without Cruice control, although i would miss it. Air temperature is strictly not needed, but i love having it even if it is 5 celcius off. But then it does not seems there are any tangible ways of turning these things off..

[DonTom]

In that case, I got a couple of miles after it hit 0%. It was kind of an odd case since I hadn't drained the bike in a while and while I was about 3 miles from home, the SOC indicator suddenly dropped from the low teens to the low single digits while I was waiting at a light. I suspect in that case, the SOC calibration was way off which is why it completely ran out about a mile from my house when normally I could make it home in limp home mode from the point where the SOC suddenly dropped.

It's kinda scary to know that can happen. It reminds me of the time my SOC was stuck at a nice high number, and I didn't realize it at first. I only thought I was getting extra great range until I went up a long hill and the SOC stayed where it was for the last 30 minutes.


-Don- Auburn, CA

[jotjotde]

How far could you ride after you got to zero SOC?


-Don-  Reno, NV

Hans tried that with his EsseEsse9 (see link) and did not come up with a definitive number, but a guy commented on his article that he was able to squeeze 5 km out of the bike after showing 0 %.
https://fotoleer.wordpress.com/2022/04/25/ive-depleted-the-battery-on-my-energica-for-the-first-time-and-this-is-what-happened/

I rode to 0 % SOC once but only for about 2 km then I arrived home. As described in the blog, the output of the bike is then reduced, accelerating to 50 kph takes an eternity, but you still go forward.

[DonTom]

"It is recommended to discharge the battery until display
of the "Low battery" message and SOC (state of charge)
= 0% every 10-20 normal charging cycles. On reaching 0%
you must recharge the motorcycle as soon as possible.

But what does that do?  Is it only for calibration of the SOC?


-Don-  Auburn, CA