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[princec]

I still wonder how many of these battery replacements have been totally unnecessary because of a stupid firmware issue.

Cas

[NervEasy]

Reset of bms is a short term fix. A lot of the '19 to '21 batteries have this issue. Once the bms is reset it uses hardcoded capacity numbers, it then relearns the actual capacity when you ride and charge and after 1500-2000 kms you are stuck with the same problem again. Dealer did the BMS reset a few times now, always the same result.

I had 3 main battery packs now (I  own my bike almost 2 years...), all of them had the same issue. Now I am waiting for my 4th main battery pack (hopefully in januari) this will be the updated battery they use in the new SR. Dealer and Zero say this issue has been fixed in the new packs, I will believe it when I experience it. At the moment I can't ride my bike as it throws isolation faults and battery ineligible faults as soon as it smells rain (which is constantly now). Dealer will also replace the motor controller as this is where those issue originate says Zero.

Fingers crossed...

[Tony]

So, just to finish the story.

I have finally decided to sell my SR/F and get something else for the next season.

I did not want to, but I got this magic charge issue again, and the service guys told me they fixed it. After pushing for more details, they admitted all they did was update to the latest firmware, something I could have done myself, and found nothing wrong. Well, maybe the update reset something, but I have no confidence they tested it properly since it is such an elusive issue, and even if they did, I assume the problem will come back again like always before. No confidence anymore...

I feel bad to potentially have someone else go through this with my second hand bike, but what else can I do now? I have had it sereviced twice for the problem, and religiously updated the firmware and maintained it by the book, drove it carefully...

Anyway, the dealer who serviced it will buy it off me and put it back oin the market, so at least they will provide the full warranty and so on to the next owner.

[NervEasy]

In Europe a lot of 2019-2021 owners are getting the new battery (newer type of cells and newer construction) installed as a fix for this issue.

[princec]

Not sure mine's bad enough to warrant this yet... it only gains about 10% over 8 hours resting in the car park.

Cas

[Tony]

In Europe a lot of 2019-2021 owners are getting the new battery (newer type of cells and newer construction) installed as a fix for this issue.

Yes, that was what I was hoping for, and I thought they could deal with this over the winter. So disappointed all the service point did was to do an OTA update of the firmware and call it a day after an hour.

So what I expect would be to get the bike back after the winter storage, only to find the problem revert after a week as before. Then having the short season crippled by trying to fix it again, this time waiting for battery replacement and all that, which is even best case scenario. Worst case is to just give up and live with half the range, and only use it as a city bike for the rest of the time owning it. Finally having trouble selling it, due to the issue and the fact it would be out of warranty period at that point.

[stevenh]

My bike started doing the magic charging this year coming out of storage (2020 (purchased in 2019) SR/F).  Yesterday I charged to 100% and let it finish balancing, then rode all highway until I got it down to 5% (was limiting acceleration pretty heavily at that point).  I then shut if off for 30 minutes and plugged in the charger and let it charge to 100% again.  The bike showed 25% SOC as it started charging, seems like a pretty big jump!  My JuiceBox Pro 40 showed I put in 9.3KW on the second charge (seems like the 25% number might have been close to the truth after sitting).

Steve

[Tony]

So, another update on this thread.

As mentioned earlier, the service guys only did an OTA firmware update and told me to collect the bike. I thought about it and instead told them that they could sell the bike for me, with 10% commission, something they offer to their customers if the bike is in good shape. I just had no faith in them actually having fixed the issue, so selling it just was a better final solution.

They accepted, and suddenly it seems they were more interested in making sure it was working well, as they would be responsible for the sale, so they did some more thorough checking and involved Zero. They found the problem I was telling them about, and spent the winter getting a new battery and finally installing it just a few days ago.

Then they told me they were too busy to sell my bike after all and asked me to pick it up. So, well, I thought that is fine since they finally seem to have done a proper job fixing it.

Just got it back, will update you guys on wether the magic charge problem is truly gone or not. I heard others here say they replaced the battery and still had the issue, so who knows...

At least the motorbike is reeally optimistic on the range at the moment. 220km on what it claims to be 89% charge, hm...

[NervEasy]

The new battery is 15.6kWh and according to how you ride is that range is possible.
I'm now at around 3000km with the new battery and it behaves ok. Charge profiles are a lot worse than the old pack though.
But then again the charge times where all over the place then. Now it is roughly what it should be.

[Tony]

The new battery is 15.6kWh and according to how you ride is that range is possible.
I'm now at around 300km with the new battery and it behaves ok. Charge profiles are a lot worse than the old pack though.
But then again the charge times where all over the place then. Now it is roughly what it should be.

Wow, that is encouraging input, thanks, I just thought this was some poorly calibrated range estimate. I had no idea that they might have upgraded the battery to a higher capacity one, I assumed they would have replaced it with the same type? But it does make sense they would change to a current battery pack, which is what Zero most likely would have available in storage.

I asked the service spot for details about what exactly they did, but noone seemed to know and the guy who worked on it was not there when I picked it up... It is really a messy service station in my experience. 

is there any way to verify what type of battery is installed, without involving them?

[DonTom]

I always assumed the magic charging problem was flakey batteries. When my 2017 Zero DS battery went south, it had the magic charging problem issue big time. That is the bike I have with me now. No trace of magic charging since the battery was replaced.


Ended up being good news. Under warranty, the 6.5 KWH battery was replaced with a 7.2 KWH battery. I know have about four times the range as my bad battery and no trace of magic charging.


It's the perfect bike to take on these RV trips. Most of my riding on these trips is city riding, so it gets excellent range even with the half-sized battery. Light enough to carry on the RV's hitch.


-Don-  Barstow, CA

[Tony]

I always assumed the magic charging problem was flakey batteries. When my 2017 Zero DS battery went south, it had the magic charging problem issue big time. That is the bike I have with me now. No trace of magic charging since the battery was replaced.


Ended up being good news. Under warranty, the 6.5 KWH battery was replaced with a 7.2 KWH battery. I know have about four times the range as my bad battery and no trace of magic charging.


It's the perfect bike to take on these RV trips. Most of my riding on these trips is city riding, so it gets excellent range even with the half-sized battery. Light enough to carry on the RV's hitch.


-Don-  Barstow, CA

Nice, that sounds promising, and thanks for sharing

[NEW2elec]

The battery will have the 15.6 sticker on it.  They may have unlocked the full 17kWhs for yall hard to tell.

Your experience just seems to confirm what I've been telling people with issues for years.  It's lazy or dumb dealers that don't want to deal with a tech over the phone with Zero when they could be installing a sic ass new exhaust on a gas bike like they've done a hundred times before.

Good luck with the bike

[NervEasy]

still 14.4 sticker here in EU (something regulatory...) but 15.6 internal. not unlocked to 17.3 but technically possible.

[stevenh]

I'm pretty confused on this issue.  The BMS data I can pull before and after riding don't seem to point to the actual problem with "Magic Charging".  I'm bringing the bike to the dealer for "diagnostics" in a couple of weeks, but have been poking around trying to see a pattern.  Today I charged to 100%, and let the bike balance, then I rode 20 miles at 70-75MPH, I returned with a SOC of 68%, let the bike rest 30 minutes, and the new SOC on key on was 78%.

Looking at the "status" data from the ODB2 serial cable:

After charging:
BMS | SOC |  Pack V  | Current | Capacity|  L cell  | H temp | L temp | Cont | Elig
2   100 %  116028 mV  -26 mA     89 AH    4140 mV    22 C    21 C      +     +

After my 20 minute ride:
2   71 %  108717 mV  -212 mA     89 AH    3879 mV    27 C    26 C      +     +

After 30 minutes keyed off:
2   79 %  108870 mV  -507 mA     89 AH    3885 mV    26 C    25 C      +     +

I guess I can't understand what would have caused the change in SOC based on this data, unless the real-time calculations during the ride were just off?

One strange thing I saw while balancing and doing a status (while finishing up 100% charge to start test)
BMS | SOC |  Pack V  | Current | Capacity|  L cell  | H temp | L temp | Cont | Elig
  2   100 %  116601 mV  -13384 mA     89 AH    2219 mV    22 C    21 C      +   

That low cell voltage looks way off?  Bug while charging, or smoking gun?

Steve