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[stanelie]

Hello.

I've just replaced the dead batteries from my Zero DS 2011 with 7 x 55 AH Nissan Leaf modules. As far as I can tell, the new battery works, the voltage is correct and the charger is able to charge it, and seems to balance it after the charging phase (partial battery symbol blinking for a while after a normal charge cycle), and then it turns green.

I have been able to power the rear wheel a few time, went on a few rides, but now, the motor contactor does not close anymore after a key in, and I have no error messages whatsoever. All is green on the dash, no blinking exclamation points, the BMS beeps once at power up, as it should, but I have no power at the wheel. I used to hear the contactor close when I would lift the kick stand, but not anymore. Or it will do it once randomly, and the motor will work for seconds, and then quit. no error messages either.

Thoughts? what should I be looking at?

Thanks for any help.

[stanelie]

My issue is probably related to https://www.electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=8386.0 , but any other tip is appreciated.

[TEV]

The throttle is a 0 to 5KOhm variable resistor, if it doesn't show 0 Ohm the contactor won't activate, they go bad very often.
You can measure it an see if it's showing more than 0 , and then, as you twist the throttle, it will go up to 5000 Ohm.
First time I bought the whole throttle assembly, second time I just bought the variable resistor and replace it inside of the throttle.

Good luck.

Tom
 

[stanelie]

Hi.
I have confirmed the throttle potentiometer gives out a smooth 0 to 5Ko response through the whole range.

[TEV]

Hi.
I have confirmed the throttle potentiometer gives out a smooth 0 to 5Ko response through the whole range.

That's not good  , because the throttle is the easiest, and less expensive. Next you're looking at a dead motor controller, or burned motor brushes. Ask me how I know 

[stanelie]

Yeah, it points to a defective controller. Yesterday, it started working again, and I was able to spin the wheel, so, I know the motor is good.

It's intermittent, so, maybe it's just a mechanical issue inside the controller, like a bad solder joint. I doubt a bad mosfet would come back to life by itself like that. I will try to open the controller next and see what I can find.

Thanks.

[TEV]

Yeah, it points to a defective controller. Yesterday, it started working again, and I was able to spin the wheel, so, I know the motor is good.

 I will try to open the controller next and see what I can find.

Thanks.

Don't waste your time, it's filled with that stuff that make it vibration resistant, and also disposable 

[stanelie]

A small update :
I received instructions from Alltrax (they are super quick to respond and very nice) :

Code: [Select]

As for testing to see whats wrong you'll need to get it to fail before running these,
hen make sure everything is powered up like you're going to ride it.

1) Measure b- to b+ on the controller, activate the throttle so the solenoid engages
        you should have 48v
    Measure b- to M (middle bus bar), activate the throttle so the solenoid engages
        you should have 48v

2) Change the meter over to ohms, 20k if it doesn't autorange
    Pull pins 2 and 3 off the controller (second and third small wire away from the LED)
measure resistance between the two wires, activate the throttle. It should start at 0 and
climb up to around 5k as you twist the throttle

If both of those tests check out, and the controller is not giving any red blink codes then
something is failing in the high current circuit.
I did this and I found out that I am not getting 0K to 5K at the controller. I tested the throttle itself at the cable disconnect that goes to the MBB, and I do get a proper 0K to 5K. I tested the harness cables before and after the MBB, all good. It now looks like the main bike board is to blame.

Damn undocumented black boxes. I have no kind words for Zero as a company.

I will build a serial cable to interface with the MBB and try to see if there is something wrong there. I will also hook up a 5K pot straight to the controller to see if it responds properly. If it does, I will likely bypass the MBB.

Thoughts?

[TEV]

A small update :
I received instructions from Alltrax (they are super quick to respond and very nice) :

Code: [Select]

As for testing to see whats wrong you'll need to get it to fail before running these,
hen make sure everything is powered up like you're going to ride it.

1) Measure b- to b+ on the controller, activate the throttle so the solenoid engages
        you should have 48v
    Measure b- to M (middle bus bar), activate the throttle so the solenoid engages
        you should have 48v

2) Change the meter over to ohms, 20k if it doesn't autorange
    Pull pins 2 and 3 off the controller (second and third small wire away from the LED)
measure resistance between the two wires, activate the throttle. It should start at 0 and
climb up to around 5k as you twist the throttle

If both of those tests check out, and the controller is not giving any red blink codes then
something is failing in the high current circuit.
I did this and I found out that I am not getting 0K to 5K at the controller. I tested the throttle itself at the cable disconnect that goes to the MBB, and I do get a proper 0K to 5K. I tested the harness cables before and after the MBB, all good. It now looks like the main bike board is to blame.

Damn undocumented black boxes. I have no kind words for Zero as a company.

I will build a serial cable to interface with the MBB and try to see if there is something wrong there. I will also hook up a 5K pot straight to the controller to see if it responds properly. If it does, I will likely bypass the MBB.

Thoughts?

The MBB is monitoring the current sensor, it will scream murder and disable the contactor if you connect the throttle straight to the controller.

[stanelie]

Ah, right, I saw the current sensor.
Well, if I get yelled at, I will just pull the whole controller and hook it up on the bench to test it standalone.

More coming soon.

[TEV]

Ah, right, I saw the current sensor.
Well, if I get yelled at, I will just pull the whole controller and hook it up on the bench to test it standalone.

More coming soon.

Don't forget to download the controller manual, and install the precharge circuit as per manual, otherwise you may have too much fun with plasma 

[stanelie]

So,
I managed to hook up a serial connection to the main bike board, and it was seeing the throttle fine. No error messages anywhere.

The direct pot throttle connected to the Alltrax controller yielded no result. So, I extracted the controller and bench tested it : although it doesn't show any error messages on the LED, or on the log (Alltrax controllerpro software connected using the serial port), it still doesn't work. According to Alltrax support, I should be getting supply voltage across B- and M output at throttle 0, and a lowering voltage proportional to the throttle going up. I am getting a fixed voltage. So, the high power stage of the controller appears to be defective.

Any thought on what controller I should get to replace it? Alltrax told me the direct replacement for this specific controller which is not being made anymore is the SR48500 model. Are there cheaper options?

[TEV]

So,
I managed to hook up a serial connection to the main bike board, and it was seeing the throttle fine. No error messages anywhere.

The direct pot throttle connected to the Alltrax controller yielded no result. So, I extracted the controller and bench tested it : although it doesn't show any error messages on the LED, or on the log (Alltrax controllerpro software connected using the serial port), it still doesn't work. According to Alltrax support, I should be getting supply voltage across B- and M output at throttle 0, and a lowering voltage proportional to the throttle going up. I am getting a fixed voltage. So, the high power stage of the controller appears to be defective.

Any thought on what controller I should get to replace it? Alltrax told me the direct replacement for this specific controller which is not being made anymore is the SR48500 model. Are there cheaper options?

I will try using a new, 5Kohm variable resistor instead of your throttle, because you said that the contactor won't activate, and that it's controlled by the MBB not by the controller.

[stanelie]

Hum.
I'm not sure what you mean with your last reply. You are also having throttle issues?

[TEV]

Hum.
I'm not sure what you mean with your last reply. You are also having throttle issues?

During the few years that I had my 2010 Zero S I had to replace the throttle 3 times ( first time I replaced the whole unit, second, and 3rd time just the 5Kohm variable resistor), the controller one time, and the motor brushes one time. All that in a little less than 5000 miles on the odometer.