Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Day Trippin]

As the title says, talk me out of a Zero. I recently rode a Ribelle RS and Ego+. I was pretty impressed with them but the Zero SR/S or F might be a better choice.

The Ego was a little cramped for me so I’d be leaning toward a Ribelle if I bought one. Downside though is the speed limiter on the Ribelle. Basically a full throttle pass in the ¼ mile and you are at the limiter. Which sort of negates the HP advantage of the Ribelle vs the Zero which is limited to the same speed.

I ride with a lot of friends on sport bikes and fairly often we’ll see bursts over that amount (124). Basically on backroads were little traffic and minimal police presence. So that is a minus for both the Zero and Ribelle but not the Ego. So while the Ribelle makes a lot more HP than the Zero, limiting it to 124 really reduces, and almost eliminates the benefit.

Charging for both is sort of a mixed bag. While Energica offers DC charging, it is much slower than Zero for L2 if I go for the optional 6kw charger. I have 220v setup for my cars now. DC charging in general is very hard on the batteries and if I am going on a long trip, I’ll just take something like my K1600 or Africa Twin. Both are good for eating up miles and can go 300 miles on a tank with a quick refueling stop.

So while I appreciate the DC charging option, the faster recharging at home of the 6kw charger for the Zero would be more useful every day.

While looking at the warranties, definitely a difference there. Basically 2 years on both for most things other than batteries. Then 3/36 for Energica and 5 year for Zero. That is a pretty big difference.

Dealer network is much wider for Zero. Closest Energica dealer for me would be almost 4 hours away and much farther than the Energica could go on a charge. Closest Zero dealer is 15 min.

Another plus for the Zero is the belt drive. Definitely reduces the noise and eliminates the hassle of lubing it. Adding to the overall low maintenance you get with EVs. Suspension is good enough on all the bikes for my needs so no big differentiation there.

I went into the test rides heaving favoring Energica over Zero. When I step back a bit, it seems like the Zero might be a better fit. I was really thinking the DC charging would be a big benefit, and it is overall, but less so based on how I use it. When I learned at the dealer that Energica has just 3kw charger, that was a big disappointment as it slows down my home charging which is where the vast majority of my charging will be.

I think the Energica looks nice, may handle and ride a bit better but I’ve owned my share of Italian cars and motorcycles. I’ll just say over my lifetime my relationship with all things Italian has been somewhat tempestuous. If the Energica is more demanding, lack of a close dealer, or even one not within riding distance of one charge will be huge minus.

Heart says go with the Energica but the limited speed of the Ribelle makes me say just settle for the Zero as I have other bikes to ride if I need more engagement and the Zero is a pretty good platform. If I had a Ribelle had performance similar to the Ego, then that would be closer to what I really want. I thought about maybe seen if the footpeg brackets from the Ribelle might go on the Ego and give me the more room I am looking for on it.

I like the new Experia but I think it might be too slow. My daily driver car is maybe a touch slower off the line than the Ego/Ribelle but will easily pull it from 20 mph and with the Experia slower than the Ego or Ribelle, it would probably be boring. The Ego/Ribelle have about the right level of acceleration to keep me entertained when I twist the throttle.

Am I missing anything? I want to put something in my garage in the next few months and nothing is really ticking all my boxes. Actually the Experia with the Ego motor and top speed would be ideal if it had a faster charger.

[MVetter]

DC charging in general is very hard on the batteries

All charging is, by definition, DC charging. From there it's an argument of C rating. If you're putting the optional 6kW charger on the Zero you're expecting a full charge in 1 hour, aka 1C. If you're doing a DC Fast Charge on an Energica it takes a little under an hour, meaning you're a little past 1C. What makes Zero's option healthier?

[Day Trippin]

If you go for all the upgrades, then Zero can charge in about an hour. Otherwise I believe they say 2.7 hours for the premium version. If not on a fast charger, the Ribelle is 6 hours.

Honestly, this is the least of my concerns as I mentioned if any long range riding I do will most likely be done on a better bike for the purpose; longer range, better wind protection, more comfortable etc.

Any sort of fast charging is mostly academic. From what I've read, you can basically get one fast charge out of the Energicas and then next charge the battery has warmed up so much the thermal management kicks in and your charge rate is much slower anyway. Really negates the impact of fast charging which is the one area where Energica seemed to have a potentially big advantage over the Zero.

[MVetter]

Which is when I point out the fact that 99% of the J1772 stations in North America are 6.6kW or under. You can use Tesla Destination stations with a $250 adapter and some of them work up to 18kW, but the majority of them are significantly less powerful than that.

edit- I'm going to mention something else not oft discussed about Zeros and Energicas on the performance side of things: Zero bikes are air cooled.

This may not sound like much at first, but remember 99% of their customers are chillax commuters. The air cooled motor is fine to go all day at commute or even highway speeds. You want to start stressing the thing and it will fold hard. It doesn't take much to overheat a Zero motor if you want to. I can do it in a few minutes. Zeros can only do full power at Laguna Seca for about 2 laps before thermal cutback.

There is no thermal cutback on the Energica. Liquid cooled motor and inverter. Try and overheat it. Just try. It's made for Moto-E.

[flynnstig82r]

As the title says, talk me out of a Zero. I recently rode a Ribelle RS and Ego+. I was pretty impressed with them but the Zero SR/S or F might be a better choice.

The Ego was a little cramped for me so I’d be leaning toward a Ribelle if I bought one. Downside though is the speed limiter on the Ribelle. Basically a full throttle pass in the ¼ mile and you are at the limiter. Which sort of negates the HP advantage of the Ribelle vs the Zero which is limited to the same speed.

I ride with a lot of friends on sport bikes and fairly often we’ll see bursts over that amount (124). Basically on backroads were little traffic and minimal police presence. So that is a minus for both the Zero and Ribelle but not the Ego. So while the Ribelle makes a lot more HP than the Zero, limiting it to 124 really reduces, and almost eliminates the benefit.

You can run a 41T rear sprocket to lift that top speed up into the high 130’s. You won’t have quite as much acceleration off the line, of course.

Charging for both is sort of a mixed bag. While Energica offers DC charging, it is much slower than Zero for L2 if I go for the optional 6kw charger. I have 220v setup for my cars now. DC charging in general is very hard on the batteries and if I am going on a long trip, I’ll just take something like my K1600 or Africa Twin. Both are good for eating up miles and can go 300 miles on a tank with a quick refueling stop.

So while I appreciate the DC charging option, the faster recharging at home of the 6kw charger for the Zero would be more useful every day.

How often would you realistically go out riding, burn up all the range, come back home, and then go do it again in the same day? And even if you did, you can add the missing range very quickly at a DC station. Since you’re not talking about a full charge, it would be like a gas stop.

While looking at the warranties, definitely a difference there. Basically 2 years on both for most things other than batteries. Then 3/36 for Energica and 5 year for Zero. That is a pretty big difference.

Dealer network is much wider for Zero. Closest Energica dealer for me would be almost 4 hours away and much farther than the Energica could go on a charge. Closest Zero dealer is 15 min.

Energica may not have as generous a warranty on the battery, but they’re also a lot less likely to need that warranty. When you look at the used market, it’s very common to see Zero’s that have had a replacement pack, whereas I’ve never heard of anyone needing a replacement Energica pack.

Another plus for the Zero is the belt drive. Definitely reduces the noise and eliminates the hassle of lubing it. Adding to the overall low maintenance you get with EVs. Suspension is good enough on all the bikes for my needs so no big differentiation there.

I’m with you on wishing they had a belt drive, but one nice advantage of a chain is that you can change the gearing.

I went into the test rides heaving favoring Energica over Zero. When I step back a bit, it seems like the Zero might be a better fit. I was really thinking the DC charging would be a big benefit, and it is overall, but less so based on how I use it. When I learned at the dealer that Energica has just 3kw charger, that was a big disappointment as it slows down my home charging which is where the vast majority of my charging will be.

I think the Energica looks nice, may handle and ride a bit better but I’ve owned my share of Italian cars and motorcycles. I’ll just say over my lifetime my relationship with all things Italian has been somewhat tempestuous. If the Energica is more demanding, lack of a close dealer, or even one not within riding distance of one charge will be huge minus.

It’s the exact opposite. Zero’s have way more issues than Energicas, and the customer support is nowhere near as good. Energica will go to the ends of the Earth to do right by their customers. Zero will charge you $200 to go in reverse, accidentally limit your bike’s power to match the base SR with a firmware update, or cause your battery to think it’s depleted at 40% SoC and limit itself to dangerously-slow speeds. Look up MVetter’s old post and video on that subject. Watching that video will talk you out of buying a Zero more effectively than I ever could!

Heart says go with the Energica but the limited speed of the Ribelle makes me say just settle for the Zero as I have other bikes to ride if I need more engagement and the Zero is a pretty good platform. If I had a Ribelle had performance similar to the Ego, then that would be closer to what I really want. I thought about maybe seen if the footpeg brackets from the Ribelle might go on the Ego and give me the more room I am looking for on it.

I like the new Experia but I think it might be too slow. My daily driver car is maybe a touch slower off the line than the Ego/Ribelle but will easily pull it from 20 mph and with the Experia slower than the Ego or Ribelle, it would probably be boring. The Ego/Ribelle have about the right level of acceleration to keep me entertained when I twist the throttle.

Am I missing anything? I want to put something in my garage in the next few months and nothing is really ticking all my boxes. Actually the Experia with the Ego motor and top speed would be ideal if it had a faster charger.

Lots of people go from Zero to Energica. Nobody goes back. I actually had a pretty decent experience with my 2017 Zero SR, but I’ve heard enough stories to be glad that I’m in the other camp now.

[MVetter]

Lots of people go from Zero to Energica. Nobody goes back. I actually had a pretty decent experience with my 2017 Zero SR, but I’ve heard enough stories to be glad that I’m in the other camp now.

This is one of the things I bring up frequently. I don't openly spam the video review I did on the SR/F because I'm not looking to bash Zero. Another thing I'd mention is that, while belts are awesome and low maintenance, Zero tends to under-spec their belts and they get shredded under heavy torque.

[DonTom]

This is one of the things I bring up frequently. I don't openly spam the video review I did on the SR/F because I'm not looking to bash Zero. Another thing I'd mention is that, while belts are awesome and low maintenance, Zero tends to under-spec their belts and they get shredded under heavy torque.

I checked a couple of NEW belts on NEW bikes at the dealer in Reno and they were way too tight. I wouldn't even ride those a mile. I would expect the belt to break. I wonder if them being over-tightened is the main reason the belts to break--especially on the new bikes.


Is it the dealer or Zero who installs the belts?


But yeah, compare my Harley belt to any Zero. But I wonder what effect a thick belt like Harley uses will have on the range of an electric motorcycle.


Every time I see a small bump on the road (or something like a train track) I always back off the throttle a bit on my Zeros.


Anyway, I would say my Energica is my favorite bike to ride, and it is a SS9-. However, Zero has it's advantages also. Less maintenance, lighter.


I own both and where I am going is what makes me decide which to take. The type of charge stations where I am going. I can charge my Zero SR with 8 KW on the road from some J-plugs (but some J-stns cannot go that high). But that is still better than the 3KW AC charging on the Energica.  But if there is CCS, then it is 24 KW on the Energica.


I would decide which bike to buy by the charge stations in route of the places you want to go.


I have found J-1772 to be better in Reno, but CCS to be better in CA. But it depends on where I am going. Between here and Reno, it makes no difference as there are plenty of both types, no matter which way I decide to go. I-80, US50, and Hwy 20 all have all I need between here and Reno of either type.


Anyway, I would decide by charge stations. Zero is better for J-plugs, but Energica has CCS.


I was on my Zero SR for most of the day today. I really have no complaints about either make of bike, but they are quite different.


IMO, Energica would be the perfect bike if they could squeeze a 6KW AC charger in there for the places that don't have CCS. And a lot of J-charging is free. Especially in Reno.


The service from Energica I never hear anybody complain about. But Zero has a lot more dealers--but way too many issues from most, from what I read here.


It can be a tough decision to decide on one or the other. But I think the type of charging where you will be riding could be the biggest issue.


Another plus on the Energica is it comes with a reverse.


-Don-  Auburn, CA

[Fred]

You really have to try the bikes and decide for yourself. I rode a Zero SR/F and Energica Eva Ribelle back to back and I much preferred the Zero. The neutral and forgiving handling was the real deal-breaker. And that was before bringing price into consideration - with UK prices and various discounts on the Zero, the Energica was almost double the price.

Like 90% of SR/F users I've had no problems with the bike - apart from taking a few goes to upgrade to the most recent firmware. The problems people have seem genuine (and sometime serious) but that's not everyone. Oh - I also had a very tight belt on delivery, but I check those sort of things and fixed it after my first ride.

Bikes are a very personal thing, so by all means take other people's views. However, it's your bike and your money. Only you will know what's right for you. Just look at the ICE bikes that some people love and are very happy with! 

[Skidz]

I went from a relative problem free DSR to a Ribelle. The only real problem I had with the DSR is that the belts snapped really quick (Old small type), especially when hitting holes under throttle. The thing had eaten 5 in 50k km, and I was contemplating replacing it with a chain. Belts are way quieter than chains, but being stranded because you didn't grandfather it sucks pretty hard.
Before switching the dealer fsck'd up a firmware update (Sound familiar?) so I had the opportunity to test a SR/S for two weeks, giving me a good insight in the new Zero's. Apart from the regular quirks (Wet rides give a load of errors which disappear when dried up again) the SR/S drove nicely. But for a bike that was 5 years younger than mine, I'd expect a whole new experience which it wasn't. Sure, this thing had 12kW charging (Which you can reach in Europe on a lot of charge points) but the range was identical to my DSR. My commute is 144km highway, and the SR/S could not make it in one go doing 100km/h.
The Ribelle on the other hand is a different bike than the SRS/SDS platform. Different battery, different charging, different drive chain. The 144km commute is done with 10-20% left and I drive 110-120km/h. Charging is widely available here so if I run out of juice it tops up under 30 minutes. I've done a 450km trip in half the time it took with the DSR (Which had 8kW charging) because of the higher average speeds and the CCS charging.

In the end it's the driver that decides based on their gut feeling. I'm 5"10 (1m78) and the Ribelle fit like a glove. I also felt the Ribelle was more 'planted' giving me more confidence in cornering. To get a SR/F to about the same specs as the Ribelle the price difference was about $2500 so also not a deal breaker for me. Add in the weak spots like wet rides (Which I get every once in a while) and the belt drive, and the best choice for me is the Ribelle.

This is my $0.02

PS Can't you get Energica to install the Kit Corsa Clienti on the Ribelle? That should quench your racing thirst I imagine...

[NEW2elec]

To the OP, that's a tough one.  You like speed or I'd say look at the new Experia.
At the risk of being shot down or at least shot at, may I suggest looking at the Damon HS.  Take a look at the projected specs and maybe sign up for a test ride.
They are not being sold at this time so if you have to grab something now maybe look for options to change the pegs or seat for the Ego best way to get the speed you want for this year.

[Fred]

Well, if we're suggesting bikes that don't exist then I'd say go for a Ducati V21L or a Triumph TE-1. (I suspect both of these will be available before a Damon.) 

[TF104]

Energica stands behind their product I had a couple minor issues with mine in the beginning and they went above and beyond to make things right I don’t think Zero owners feel the same

[DonTom]

Energica stands behind their product I had a couple minor issues with mine in the beginning and they went above and beyond to make things right I don’t think Zero owners feel the same.

There's no doubt about that. When I purchased my 2020 SS9-, the main key was missing. So after I received the bike, and used it for around 1,200 miles. Energica came to my house to pick it up and bring it to their shop. While it was in the shop, they did my first servicing for free, adjusted the chain and such, replaced the key module and a new set of keys. And delivered the bike back to my house here in Auburn, CA.


-Don-  Auburn, CA

[tunafish_phd]

I was going through the same questions as you when I started looking at Electric bikes. My decision came down to the morality of selling you a bike laden with features, then charging you thousands of dollars to digitally "unlock" them. So you're potentially driving around with the extra weight of a "bigger battery" and "More powerful motor" without having access to those features... And those are just the tip of the iceberg.

If you buy an Energica, you know exactly what you're getting and won't have to pay extra down the road to "unlock" a feature thats already on your bike.


That was literally the deciding point for me.

That and talking with Tom at Energica.. He went to the end of the earth and back to get me a bike as fast as he could.

[DonTom]

This tread reminds me of this.


I am still buying my 11th motorcycle, but it is the Energica Experia.


-Don-  Auburn, CA