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[rogerpiano]

As I wrote in another post, every summer I ask myself the question of whether to switch from S to SR / F, and I regularly retrace my steps happy to stay at S. In this post I would like to write what would be the ideal configuration for a Zero (according to myself):

- Driving position and handling of the S
- Weight not exceeding 200 kg
- 6 KW base charging and glove compartment
- Double front disc
- No 12V battery
- Simplified software configuration as on S-DS, so no unnecessary frills
- Possibility of loading with C13, with Andersen and with Mennekes (I don't understand why the Andersen has disappeared on the SR platforms)

I bought my S in 2019, and after 3 years I find I find no reason to switch to SR / F, especially when I read about the problems that plague the new platform. The S (or DS) still seems to me today the most balanced and the most efficient of the models available.

To date the SR / F, although beautiful, for me represents only 40kg more to carry around, useless and often malfunctioning accessories and trappings, lower autonomy for the same battery compared to S.

[Richard230]

I have the same feeling about trading in my 2018 S with a Power Tank for a new SR/F. My S works great and has not given me any problems that i could not fix in my garage.    I haven't had to return to my dealer since the 600 mile initial checkup.

[rogerpiano]

In June I went to do the commissioning of the engine and the dealer offered me to switch to SR (F or S or normal) with state eco-bonus + 3000 € incentive as already owner of a Zero + exchange of my S. With a small additional sum I could have taken the new SR or putting more SR / F. However, after days of reflection, I came to these conclusions:

- With the S I mostly charge at home with slow charging and external charger. I preserve the battery and don't use the notoriously weak on-board charger. I can't do it with SR because I have only one on-board charger and if it breaks I'm stuck.

- With the S I travel more road with the same battery. The basic 3kw charging of the SR doesn't substantially change anything if I wanted to take a trip, because I would travel less road due to the weight and everything else and the charging times would still be long. We should at least switch to 6kw

- The SR seems to me just a decoy, because it seems to be cheap but in the end it forces you to upgrade sooner or later. The type of use, then, is the same as that of an S, because you still can't make long journeys, and therefore you can only enjoy the upgrade within a limited range of km.

In the end, the only SRs that seem to make any real sense to me are those with full 12kw charging.

If they offered me an incentive to upgrade from S 2019 to S 2022 I would take it now!

[Richard230]

I recently bought a Zero 1K accessory charger and have been using that device to charge up at home for the same reason. Since my original OBC failed I decided to only use the replacement OBC when needing to charge somewhere other than at home. The Zero accessory charger seems like a really robust device and looks to me to be "bomb proof" and the slightly lower charge rate probably is a little easier on the battery pack.

[JaimeC]

My 2018 S was pretty much my "perfect Zero" until some @$$wipe decided not to look before pulling out of a driveway and slamming right into me.  I ended up buying SonOfAnakin's 2021 SR but I really didn't need that much power.  The problem is, for some IDIOTIC reason, Zero only sells the "S" model with the 7.2kWh battery option in the US (you can still get it with the 14.4kWh battery in Europe).

7.2kWh is insufficient for how I used the bike (my 2018 had the 13kWh battery) and I simply don't trust the Generation3 bikes (SR/F, SR/S and the new SR) yet.  I've been reading far far too many issues with the software/firmware and the 12v battery to be comfortable with them.  I'm not into Adventure-style bikes and beside the DS/DSR gets less range than the S anyway.  Plus, the DS has the same issue as the S in the United States (only available with the 7.2kWh battery).

For now I'm happy with the 2021 SR.  SonOfAnakin had already outfitted the bike with everything I had on my 2018 S plus a set of locking side cases which I'd always considered but never actually purchased.  He also had the touring screen installed (I just had the commuter screen) and MOST importantly, the 6kW Charge Tank.  The only thing I had to add was the handle-bar mount for my smart phone and the little license-plate box where I secure my insurance card.  https://www.aerostich.com/locking-license-plate-compartment.html

[DonTom]

I recently bought a Zero 1K accessory charger and have been using that device to charge up at home for the same reason. Since my original OBC failed I decided to only use the replacement OBC when needing to charge somewhere other than at home. The Zero accessory charger seems like a really robust device and looks to me to be "bomb proof" and the slightly lower charge rate probably is a little easier on the battery pack.

The OBC is more efficient when using 240 VAC like I always do. That means less heat in the OBC, so it should last longer.


The OBC is around 1.4KW. The Delta-Q is  around 850 watts or so, IIRC. But that type of difference will be negligible to your battery pack.


 I normally charge my Zero SR at either 3, six or 8 KW, but always with 240 VAC. I cannot even remember the last time I only used the OBC (1.4KW) other than when on an RV trip with my DS.


I normally charge my DS at either three or six KWs.


No battery issues yet, other than my Zero DS battery that crapped out during the warranty.


In fact, the one battery that died in warranty was when I normally only used the OBC at ~1.4 KW.


-Don-  Auburn, CA

[Richard230]

You are right Don. The Delta Q charger is 850 watts. My home doesn't have 240Vs, just 120V. I still think that the OBC gets too hot for its own good when charging for a long time and that heat likely leads to one of its components failing eventually. I bet that if it had a fan to keep it cool it would last a lot longer. That Delta Q is a real brick. While it also gets pretty hot when charging, at least it has plenty of fins to keep it cool, especially when being used in my 60 degree F garage.

[TheRan]

You are right Don. The Delta Q charger is 850 watts. My home doesn't have 240Vs, just 120V. I still think that the OBC gets too hot for its own good when charging for a long time and that heat likely leads to one of its components failing eventually. I bet that if it had a fan to keep it cool it would last a lot longer. That Delta Q is a real brick. While it also gets pretty hot when charging, at least it has plenty of fins to keep it cool, especially when being used in my 60 degree F garage.

Don't most (all?) American homes have 240V going to them and it's just split into two 120V circuits? If I remember right it's as simple as adding a circuit breaker to your panel that bridges the two circuits, then run a cable from that to a 240V socket installed in your garage.

[Richard230]

You are right Don. The Delta Q charger is 850 watts. My home doesn't have 240Vs, just 120V. I still think that the OBC gets too hot for its own good when charging for a long time and that heat likely leads to one of its components failing eventually. I bet that if it had a fan to keep it cool it would last a lot longer. That Delta Q is a real brick. While it also gets pretty hot when charging, at least it has plenty of fins to keep it cool, especially when being used in my 60 degree F garage.

Don't most (all?) American homes have 240V going to them and it's just split into two 120V circuits? If I remember right it's as simple as adding a circuit breaker to your panel that bridges the two circuits, then run a cable from that to a 240V socket installed in your garage.

In theory, yes. But it would take an electrician to perform that work and a permit from the city's building department, which would likely cost over a thousand dollars to do. Maybe more as in my home the electric panel is located on the other side of my house from my garage and I am not sure how that could be done. Plus, I would have no other use for a 240V circuit as everything that might need it in my home is powered by natural gas.

BTW, my daughter is having her 100 amp panel replaced with a 200 service so they can install solar panels for a cost of $7,000. She got three bids and that was the cheapest. The high bid was $20K.  There are no bargain electrical work available in the SF Bay Area. Business for electricians is very brisk around here. 

[MVetter]

I can almost guarantee you they're just milking incentives, too. I suspect they're pocketing most of the rebates themselves. I keep hearing things from homeowner friends "ohhh, we got this battery array and got $2k off it" and from the basic amount I know about the incentive program (California SGIP in this case) they would have been eligible for $8k+. I suspect the contractor pocketed the other $6k quietly.

[Richard230]

I can almost guarantee you they're just milking incentives, too. I suspect they're pocketing most of the rebates themselves. I keep hearing things from homeowner friends "ohhh, we got this battery array and got $2k off it" and from the basic amount I know about the incentive program (California SGIP in this case) they would have been eligible for $8k+. I suspect the contractor pocketed the other $6k quietly.

They were quoted a price for the solar panels of $50K. But they have to have a new electrical panel installed because their existing panel was not acceptable to the solar power company. Apparently when their home was built in 1957 the contractor never took out a permit for the electrical service and it doesn't meet current codes.

[mdjak1]

My ideal Zero would be handling and weight of my FXS.   But with 6kW J1772 charging and the range of my 2018 SR.  Better seating for a passenger and better lighting would be good too.

[DonTom]

You are right Don. The Delta Q charger is 850 watts. My home doesn't have 240Vs, just 120V. I still think that the OBC gets too hot for its own good when charging for a long time and that heat likely leads to one of its components failing eventually. I bet that if it had a fan to keep it cool it would last a lot longer. That Delta Q is a real brick. While it also gets pretty hot when charging, at least it has plenty of fins to keep it cool, especially when being used in my 60 degree F garage.

A fan isn't a bad idea. Just get a small 120 VAC fan and have it blow near the bottom of the bike. But if you're in no hurry, just use the DeltaQ.


BTW, here at home, I can charge my 2017 SR at 9.7KW.  But I am rarely in that type of hurry. But if I am, I can use my Tesla Wall Connector to a Tesla Tap to two 3.3 Elcons, two DeltaQ and the OBC. That adds up to just under 10 KW with 240 VAC. It's 240 VAC at 48 amps. 240V times 48 amps=11,520 watts.


You must have an old house there. Like my old built in 1943 SSF dumpy house. Only the neutral and one hot ran to the house. I could see the other hot wire taped to the other wires coming from the telephone pole. So there was not even any 240 VAC at the house at all--ever.  But the wire for it was close to the house but 15 feet up in the air.  I never did have 240 VAC at that house.


My SSF house was one of the few to be built during WW2.


BTW, it's this dump here.    That it is only now worth a little more than a million bucks proves what a dump it is--for that area.


-Don-  Auburn, CA

[JaimeC]

Getting back on track:

Of course DCFC would be nice, BUT as long as I have 6kW charging capability I'm content.  In fact, I see this as a good thing.  As I get older I'm learning how important it is to slow down and appreciate what's around me.  In order to maximize my range, I stay off of the interstates and limited access highways.  This forces me to go through towns and see things I would otherwise miss.  I just discovered Plugshare has the capability of planning routes around charging stations and as long as I'm in no hurry I really can go almost anywhere I'd like to go.  If I AM in a hurry for now, I do have two ICE bikes for that purpose but I find that 95% of my riding is less than 100 miles and easily within range of my SR.

SonOfAnakin also equipped the bike with Zero's touring seat which is a damned sight better than the stock saddle.  I had the Corbin on my S which I found more attractive as I could custom order the colors and styling that I wanted.  I may still do that with the SR but for the time being the touring saddle is just fine for all day rides.

[Richard230]

Now that you mention it I would have really appreciated a softer seat on my S. That thing is really hard, but I solved that problem with a Air Hawk seat pad. Hopefully the seats on the SR/F&S models are better designed as i have yet to see one in person since they hit the market.