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[Tony_]

So, this summer I decided to take a long roadtrip with my 2020 SR/F Premium here in Norway, roughly 1300km in total. I am still in the middle of this trip, but thought maybe my experience so far will be of interest to someone else. So, sharing it here. Hope you will find it useful

First, some background:

My first though when planning was to rent a gas powered MC, to avoid the whole range anxiety, but then I thought, this is not about getting from A to B most efficiently, but to take the tine along the route and stop to enjoy the beautiful scenery, enjoy some nice food and take it easy. Meaning frequent charging stops is not a problem, but a chance to slow down, relax and take in everything. So, I expected I would always be able to keep my charge within good safety margins and still have plenty of time to ride between stops. I also brought a tent, to truly make it convenient to camp along the route and never worry about the total travel time. I set aside two weeks for the trip, so no rush or hurry.

I am now on day three of my trip, and this is what I have learned so far.

Before this trip I have only been driving in the city, at relatively low speeds. I could easily drive for what felt like hours between chargings, never had a charging problem ever, and I did assume that the roughly 125km range I was quoted on some sites would stay true also outside the city.

Sadly, this is definitively not true in non-city-scenarios, and the effect was quite dramatic when changing parameters like average speed and elevation from what I am used to.

On the freeway where speeds would generally be more like in the 80-100km/h and there would be some sleek uphill slopes. I am consistently getting less than 80km range now, in ECO mode, which is quite a drop from the expected 125km range, completely messing with the whole plan. However, I am not sure how much I can trust the battery charge status. Last time I got a chance to charge, I was at 6% charge when finally finding a working charging station. However, when stopping and restarting the bike, it magically jumped to 21% charge. So, what is it, 6% about to get a heart attack from worrying about charging, or a 21% safe and cozy range?

I find not being able to trust this battery indicator to be quite battery anxiety inducing. It is very hard to plan the route without knowing accurate safety margins.

So, the result is I generally can only drive max one hour at a time, before starting to feel like it is getting a bit dangerous. And then came the second most frustrating part of the experience: Charging.

There are basically three frustrating parts about charging ZR/F in Norway:

1. Charging speed. I typically had to spend about 1-1.5 hours to charge each time on the typical Type 2 chargers here. Some are fast, some are slow here, pretty random luck what you will get. Minimum seems to be about less than an hour going from 30% to 100%. So, basically, I drive an hour, charge one hour. It is highly inefficient.

2. Payment solutions. Phew, what a mess. In the city area I am usually traveling, no problem, I just need one app as there is only one major charging provider to deal with. On a long road trip, there are so many different ones, they all have their own apps, weird instructions and payment solutions. I would typically spend at least ten minutes to set it all up every time I met a new one.

3. Type 2 or no? This is a real headache here. A lot of the charging stations does not offer Type 2 compatible chargers, CHAdeMO and CCS is the safe bet here (or Tesla, but they have their own system AFAIK). So, you plan your trip based on charging stations just to find, sorry bud, they cannot actually charge you up here. Then random luck will decide if you can find another one nearby, before you run out of juice. Some times the alternative charging station was in the wrong direction, wasting time and burning more juice for getting back on track after charging. Some sort of adapter to Type 2 is badly needed, but unfortunately I know of no such thing, and it is nevertheless too late to track that down now.

I was also quite surprised to see how much bad information is out there on Google Maps. Do not assume this is up to date. A lot of times I homed in on a charging station that was supposed to support Type 2, only to find it no longer did.

Another observation is it was quite random if the charging station had a cable or not. Most did, but some did not. And I am so happy I brought one type 2 charging cable and also one schucko charging cable. The Schucko one definitively saved my ass more than once so far. Without both, I would definitively have been stuck. I also found they charging station owners were not good at maintenance, many times the charging cables were all damaged. But magically worked somehow anyway.

So, main lesson, always have a fail safe charging plan option, if the first choice does not work out.

However, the problem is planning a charging route is hard enough even if you can charge properly, having to plan an alternative charging in addition really adds a lot of additional stress. Especially as the total range is so short. So, say I want to charge at roughly 30%, I have to find two charging stations within that range. Sometimes it is just impossible, and you really do need to pray for luck.

So, taking all of this into consideration, basically the only responsible way of driving is to pull in to a charging station EVERY TIME one presents itself, check for a type 2 and charge if possible, no matter how much charge is left. Because, 80km range is just so short that it gives you almost no safety margin. This of course if quite tedious, and waste a lot of time that should have been spent enjoying the scenery and relaxing cruising around. I have no problems stopping frequently, but charging stations are not the most awe inspiring nature experience along the route.

Tomorrow I will go on the most scary part of the ride. Then I need to go over a mountain. Two problems with this. First, it is uphill, I am not sure how much extra power it will take, so all the things I learned so far is pretty useless. Secondly, almost nothing exist on the mountain top, especially not charging stations. It SHOULD be fine within the range of the motorcycle, but at this point, I have lost my faith in it.

Having said all this, the SR/F is an absolute dream to ride. I like it a lot, it would have been perfect but the not-at-all-125km-range issue has sadly been a dissapointment so far, I wish I knew earlier it is so far off my expectations.

Some suggestions to Zero. How about adding pedals so it can be used as a bicycle? Some friends I visited on the route also suggested I could get a diesel power generator and tow it behind the motorbike. Zero, are you listening? Something to consider for your accessories shop? 

But kidding aside, Zero, where is that 10% faster charging Cypher Store unlock that you have advertised will come "soon" for nearly a year now??

Anyways, I will update the story as I keep pressing on...

[MVetter]

Sounds like your bike is heavily plagued by the Magic Charging firmware bug.

[Tony_]

Sounds like your bike is heavily plagued by the Magic Charging firmware bug.

This is new to me, what is it and any way to diagnose / fix this on the road?

[MVetter]

Nope. You can try to get a battery replacement from Zero but don't hold your breath. We reported this bug in December of 2020 and it remains unfixed. Here's a breakdown of what is going on. I've timestamped the video to the appropriate part:

[Tony_]

Nope. You can try to get a battery replacement from Zero but don't hold your breath. We reported this bug in December of 2020 and it remains unfixed. Here's a breakdown of what is going on. I've timestamped the video to the appropriate part:

Ouch...

At least I am glad I found out about it, I guess with city riding it would never surface as an issue. It is too late to fix it for this season, and certainly for this trip, but at least the bike is not as disappointing as I worried when everything is working. I'll contact the dealer once I am back and see, but for the moment I have to deal with this the best I can.

One thing that is not entirely clear to me though. What would happen should I keep driving past the 0% charge mark with this bug?

Do I have more power than what is reported, and the bike would be able to go on until the expected range (say I get a 0% indication after 80km, but actually could potentially drive for another 40 km)? Or would it simply stop because the firmware tells it is out of juice/battery is simply not working properly?

[MVetter]

It genuinely believes it's out of power and will restrict your output. That's what I meant when, in the video, I said, "...it will not give me the power I need to go up this hill safely, with cars behind me."

The bike was reducing me to 25mph max and that stretch of road is regularly driven at 50. So you'd be able to go at 0% for a long, long time because you may actually have 40% of the battery left but the bike is restricting you like you have 0%. This is another reason you noted that the bike was only taking an hour and a half to charge, when it's supposed to take two hours: it wasn't empty. If you want to document it, you should note that a Premium 2020 SR/F (without the extra rapid charging module) is capable of charging 8-9% every 10 minutes. If you notice it gaining something like 15% in that amount of time, that means up to 9% was real and then 6% was just internal recalculation.

It's easily the most frustrating thing about this platform, especially because we're a year and a half into knowing about it with no fix yet. This is something I warn potential new SR/F or SR/S owners about.

[DonTom]

It's easily the most frustrating thing about this platform, especially because we're a year and a half into knowing about it with no fix yet. This is something I warn potential new SR/F or SR/S owners about.

At what SOC does the power drop off a lot? And at what SOC does the "Magic Charging" start at on the SR/S?


-Don-  Auburn, CA

[MVetter]

At what SOC does the power drop off a lot? And at what SOC does the "Magic Charging" start at on the SR/S?

I wish I could be more precise about Zero's firmware bugs but sadly I can only say that, on some bikes, the vehicle will mis-calculate its SoC upwards of 40% or more and penalize you for trying to ride distances. Essentially the bike can and will tell you that the battery is depleted when, in reality, it may only be at 40%.

[NEW2elec]

I thought they fixed this with an update last year?

They had a patch for my 17 DSR narcolepsy issue where it would randomly go into hibernation after charging but I've only been able to ride it once since I got it back.

[Richard230]

And yet (my old 2014 S and) my current 2018 Zero S does not have any "magic charging" and its SOC calculation works perfectly. If Zero had it right in the past, why did they screw up the SOC calculation system when introducing the SR/F platform? It just doesn't make any sense. 

[NEW2elec]

When they replaced my battery they told the shop I was "grossly behind on firmware updates". 
I didn't say anything but "damn right I don't update that thing" was going through my mind.  If I don't have a problem then I'm not changing anything, I've seen too many new problems pop up.

The new Cypher 3 system has some nice new features, if they all worked right.  When they said these bikes would have an AUX 12V battery I cringed.  I knew nothing good was going to come of that.
They were reaching for the brass ring of any time OTA updates and GPS stolen bike tracking at the expense of creating a very weak link in the chain.

[DonTom]

And yet (my old 2014 S and) my current 2018 Zero S does not have any "magic charging" and its SOC calculation works perfectly. If Zero had it right in the past, why did they screw up the SOC calculation system when introducing the SR/F platform? It just doesn't make any sense. 

With my 2017 Zero DS, it had severe "magic charging" when the in-warranty 6.5 KWH battery was crapping out. After the battery was replaced to a new 7.2 KWH battery, no more "magic charging" and about four times the range.


And when the 6.5 KWH battery was bad, it also charged to full four times as fast, and I could often see the SOC increase with Regen.


IOW, fast charging to full can be an indication of a bad battery. As the KWH goes down, it's much like a new but much smaller battery in KWH.


-Don-  Auburn, CA

[Zelidar]

You might have a battery which has grown a defect. Mine did that past the 30'000 km mark and was replaced for free by Zero. To clarify you need a Zero dealer who will pull the long logs from your machine using a dealer-only software tool. Upon Zero studying that log, you will soon know what the matter is.

Otherwise, regarding long road trips. I have now slightly more that 44'000 km charging at max 6 kW. This weekend I did a trip from Switzerland to Austria and back, totaling 813 km. I charged yesterday at the hotel and it only took 90 minutes. Next week I am going into a 6 days trip with my girlfriend in Northern Italy. All that to say that I have now gotten to know this bike quite well and I trust it enough for doing longer trips. It did take some time to learn all the tricks with charging cables and charging stations and charging network... but you will get there quickly.

[Tony_]

So on to part 2: I just finished the second leg of the trip, and now arrived at the destination. 650 km + with this crazy battery bug, phew... It was pretty hard core and nerve wrecking in parts, and needed some highly detailed planning. it should be some kind of sports competition perhaps, challenging to me at least.

After reading the response to my original post, I went ahead and updated the firmware. I was naive enough to think the guys did that at the service, but apparently not. I had firmware 21 for the main board, and 19 for the battery manager. So, after a lot of annoying failing (apparently you need to keep your phone on top of the MC for about 30 minutes without touchibng it, the bluetooth will drop out given any imagineable excuse. Multitasking was out of question) I was able to upgrade to main board version 23 firmware. The battery manager, sadly, had no update. I already had the laterst version. Thinve this is a battery manager problem, I did not expect it to resolve my issues. And I was not disappointed (well, I was disappointed that the problem was not resolved, but not disappointed in my own prediction as it was correct)

Anyway, I did made it over the mountain where my last entry ended. This stage worried me the most, as it had no charging points and a steep uphill slope. And, some big drama happaned at the base of the mountain. There were supposed to be three Type 2 charge stations there with multiple outlets each, but one was removed, one did not work the last one apparently never existed. This was the last nail in the Google Maps charge map coffin. It is extremely outdated. Even the local charging app-maps were out of date. So, basically, never trust any map, you never know what reality awaits when you are outside the big cities.

This was a cruicial moment, because there was no way to make the mountain trip without this boost, and no other ways around it. After suffering this big setback, and starting to plan on just giving up and set back home (a two day trip), a guy approached me and asked me about the Zero MC, he never saw an electric motorbike before and he was intrigued. We started talking, I offered him some local snack I pucked up on the trip, and the next thing I knew was he invited me to use his personal Type 2 charger.

So, blind luck and kind hearted people saved the trip, and I could move along. 

I made it over the mountain to the next charging station, about 1.,5 hour trip, with aboutr 20% left. The downhill slope and eco driving really helped down the other end. And, THANK GOD for the heated grips in my premium model. The temperature went from 25c at the base, to 8C on the top with heavy winds.

I learned to become more creative with charging after this, and found camping areas are a good source of electric outlets. So, I was able to charge there with my Schucho charger cable when the charging stations dried up or there were no Type 2 connectors anywehere within my range. And generally people want to be helpgul, especially when outside the packed cities. More than once, friendly people helped me out to find proper charging.

But, finally, today comes the big twist. My final destination is a remote island on the west coast of Norway. It is a super isolated area, and I calculated I would only juuuuust make the final charging station as they were so far apart in this area. It was a risky move, 90 km, and my bugged MC seemed to be maxing out at 80+ so far. But, I read up on ranges and wind resistance, and found that by reducing the speed and optimizing the route to make it mostly downhill, it SHOULD be all good.

So, there I was, driving the Zero like a demented 100 year old lady on an even older moped, at 45-50km/h. Luckily the area is not only charge station free, it is mostly also human free. So, not much traffic on the road that could cause any dangerous situations due to my low speed. And, mopeds are actually legal on these small roads, in Norway that means 2 wheel vehicles maxing out at 50km/h or less.

In addition, downhill I used the recharge brake a lot. There were some steep downhills, and I was braking as much as I could without going too slow. And in fact, I charged the battery during this descent. And more interestinglyh, the estimated range kept going up and uo.

Now for the INTERESTING PART: At the base of the final downhill slope, the charging station was. I plugged it in immediately, and was happy to see my pkan worked.I even got some juice left.

But what happened next, really surprised me. After charging, the battery was estimated as being able to go for 180km! While before, it would be 100 max after charging to 100%.

And, as magic, for the last part of the trip everything appeared normal! I drove 60km, at very high speeds uphill and with handle heaters on max. And the MC reported an estimated range that made perfect sense! After 60km odometer distance, it dropped 50% on the range., In the end, I arrived with over 50% left.

It was so amazing to have this leg of the trip without worrying about charging, it felt like it should have felt the whole trip! No more old lady, just worry free cruising at high speeds uphill.

Anyway, all fingers crossed, but it looks like the slow downhill recharging trip somehow reset the algorithm to get more in line with reality. It was way too pessimistic before, having an excellent leg of the trip giving overwhelmingly optimal conditions, even charging the battery up again, seem to have canceled out the negative effects from before.

I really hope it will stay this way, but for now, it does look quite good. I will report back later to let you guys know how it turns out, perhaps this techique can help out someone else too if the results lasts...

[MVetter]

Glad you were able to salvage your trip. For charging, grab the app PlugShare. I only trust PlugShare.