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Author Topic: Charging for Dummies  (Read 1740 times)

tunafish_phd

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Re: Charging for Dummies
« Reply #15 on: July 12, 2022, 05:28:14 AM »

Did Energica call and ask you? I've yet to have that question asked.
Yes, I was asked by a Energica representative during a phone call. But I later realized I would have rather been asked if I wanted the keyless ignition (yes). I was never asked that.


More than likely, I will never use the cable for the bike--not ever. Just another piece of junk in my houses.


I normally use a Tesla Wall Connector with a Tesla Tap.


-Don-  Auburn, CA

Odd to me that they keep asking you questions and giving you calls while I have yet to receive one call from Energica. I've reached out directly and they confirmed they have my pre-order and deposit but never ask any questions.

Thats not crazy odd to me. I didn't start receiving phone calls till my bike was basically ready to ship. If you're getting your bike directly from Energica, they drop ship cables, so you might not get a call till the bike goes on a truck. I think if you're getting it from a dealer, its the dealers responsibility.
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wadejesu

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Re: Charging for Dummies
« Reply #16 on: July 14, 2022, 02:22:07 AM »

Anybody have a pic of level 2 wall plug that comes with RS?
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tunafish_phd

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Re: Charging for Dummies
« Reply #17 on: July 14, 2022, 02:29:52 AM »

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wadejesu

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Re: Charging for Dummies
« Reply #18 on: July 14, 2022, 02:42:40 AM »

Cool, Between my Air compressors, I already have that receptacle

Thanks Big Tuna
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tunafish_phd

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Re: Charging for Dummies
« Reply #19 on: July 14, 2022, 02:59:04 AM »

It is worth to state again... They will ask you which outlet you want. I actually received that.. with an adapter.. AND it works on 120 still.. effectively giving me 3 options for charging
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Sklith

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Re: Charging for Dummies
« Reply #20 on: July 15, 2022, 12:50:12 AM »

It is worth to state again... They will ask you which outlet you want. I actually received that.. with an adapter.. AND it works on 120 still.. effectively giving me 3 options for charging
Yep. When I bought my Ego, they also asked me what plug I wanted. I said 14-50, and it showed up at my door a few days later.
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2020 Energia Ego

Day Trippin

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Re: Charging for Dummies
« Reply #21 on: July 18, 2022, 08:31:42 AM »

I'm new to battery powered bikes , don't have a Ribelle yet, seen a ton of videos on charging that show how to connect to bike, But what is at the other end of cable? Does bike come with some sort of AC wall plug, Is there a home Fast charge unit that can be purchased? I guess the Energica's have a CCS1 connector. I have seen chargers on ebay for around 400 USD that have J1772 and CCS1, not sure if they will work. What is Level 1, 2 , 3 charging.

Any insite would be appreciated

There is some really good info on charging in some of the Tesla forums. TMC (Tesla motor club) is a great place to start. It will really help you to understand the limitations of lithium-ion (Li-on) batteries. There are lots of things to learn about them to do what you can to reduce degradation which results in reduced range. I don't see really anything discussed here about it.

A good rule of thumb is to not use L3 (DC) charging any more than you have too. It puts a lot of stress on the batteries. It is one of the reasons that I am considering an Energica is because they offer this and Zero doesn't. It really can help with trips.

It also looks like Energica only uses air cooling for their batteries. High temps are bad for li-ion batteries. Shallow discharge cycles are better for Li-ion than deep discharge cycles. There is a lot to learn if you want to help your battery pack to survive as long as it can.

Another good source of info is batteryuniversity.com. Some good reading here specifically. https://batteryuniversity.com/article/bu-808-how-to-prolong-lithium-based-batteries

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Skidz

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Re: Charging for Dummies
« Reply #22 on: July 18, 2022, 05:42:11 PM »

I'm new to battery powered bikes , don't have a Ribelle yet, seen a ton of videos on charging that show how to connect to bike, But what is at the other end of cable? Does bike come with some sort of AC wall plug, Is there a home Fast charge unit that can be purchased? I guess the Energica's have a CCS1 connector. I have seen chargers on ebay for around 400 USD that have J1772 and CCS1, not sure if they will work. What is Level 1, 2 , 3 charging.

Any insite would be appreciated

There is some really good info on charging in some of the Tesla forums. TMC (Tesla motor club) is a great place to start. It will really help you to understand the limitations of lithium-ion (Li-on) batteries. There are lots of things to learn about them to do what you can to reduce degradation which results in reduced range. I don't see really anything discussed here about it.

A good rule of thumb is to not use L3 (DC) charging any more than you have too. It puts a lot of stress on the batteries. It is one of the reasons that I am considering an Energica is because they offer this and Zero doesn't. It really can help with trips.

It also looks like Energica only uses air cooling for their batteries. High temps are bad for li-ion batteries. Shallow discharge cycles are better for Li-ion than deep discharge cycles. There is a lot to learn if you want to help your battery pack to survive as long as it can.

Another good source of info is batteryuniversity.com. Some good reading here specifically. https://batteryuniversity.com/article/bu-808-how-to-prolong-lithium-based-batteries

I do a lot more with li-po and li-ion than just ride motorcycles, and it always makes me wonder where people making these claims get their data from without knowing what cells have been used to construct the packs on our bikes. Without proper data, statements that a certain charge current induces 'more stress' are based on nothing.

Quick math on a napkin, the Ribelle's 21.5kWh pack has a nominal voltage of 296V and the manufacturer stated it's a 2-string pack of 81 cells per string, so 81s2p. The pack is 72Ah by dividing the kWh by the V. Since practically all cells used in automotive have a charge rate of at least 1C, these packs can be charged with at least 72A without degradation because of fast charging.

The Battery University link you referred to has this line as conclusion at the bottom:
Quote from: Battery University
Energy Cells, which most consumer products have, should be charged at 1C or less. Avoid so-called ultra-fast chargers that claim to fully charge Li-ion in less than one hour.

This is exactly what Energica's do when DC charging: charge at 1C.
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DonTom

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Re: Charging for Dummies
« Reply #23 on: July 18, 2022, 11:37:07 PM »

This is exactly what Energica's do when DC charging: charge at 1C.
I think my 2020 Esse Esse 9-  charges at 2C.  The nominal battery capacity is 11.7 KWH, IIRC, but charges at 24KW on CCS.


While "C" is a current capacity rating, I think it is normally about the same as the battery KWH capacity for 1-C. IOW, a 10 KWH battery that can charged at 20KW would normally be close to 2C charging, I think. Perhaps somebody here can verify.


-Don-  Auburn, CA
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1971 BMW R75/5
1984 Yamaha Venture
2002 Suzuki DR200SE
2013 Triumph Trophy SE
2016 Kawasaki Versys 650 LT
2017 Blk/Gold HD Road Glide Ultra
2017 Org Zero DS ZF 6.5/(now is 7.2)
2017 Red Zero SR ZF13 w/ Pwr Tank
2020 Energica EVA SS9
2023 Energica Experia LE
2023 Zero DSR/X

MVetter

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Re: Charging for Dummies
« Reply #24 on: July 19, 2022, 12:33:05 AM »

Quick math on a napkin, the Ribelle's 21.5kWh pack has a nominal voltage of 296V and the manufacturer stated it's a 2-string pack of 81 cells per string, so 81s2p.

I don't know that it's ever been publicly stated, so I'd like to see that confirmed. I always assumed the 13.4 packs were 82s2p and the 21.5 packs were 82s3p.
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DonTom

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Re: Charging for Dummies
« Reply #25 on: July 19, 2022, 01:44:03 AM »

[I always assumed the 13.4 packs were 82s2p and the 21.5 packs were 82s3p.
What are the main differences between these two types of cells?


-Don-  Auburn, CA
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1971 BMW R75/5
1984 Yamaha Venture
2002 Suzuki DR200SE
2013 Triumph Trophy SE
2016 Kawasaki Versys 650 LT
2017 Blk/Gold HD Road Glide Ultra
2017 Org Zero DS ZF 6.5/(now is 7.2)
2017 Red Zero SR ZF13 w/ Pwr Tank
2020 Energica EVA SS9
2023 Energica Experia LE
2023 Zero DSR/X

MVetter

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Re: Charging for Dummies
« Reply #26 on: July 19, 2022, 02:06:13 AM »

That's not even describing cell type that's just layout. As far as I know Energica has never publicly stated the make and model of the 21.5 cells. The 13.4s were uh....... oh god it started with an E. Was it Enerdel? I can't remember.
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DonTom

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Re: Charging for Dummies
« Reply #27 on: July 19, 2022, 03:20:37 AM »

That's not even describing cell type that's just layout. As far as I know Energica has never publicly stated the make and model of the 21.5 cells. The 13.4s were uh....... oh god it started with an E. Was it Enerdel? I can't remember.
Okay. I will have to settle for knowing the difference between the two layouts.


-Don-  Auburn, CA
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1971 BMW R75/5
1984 Yamaha Venture
2002 Suzuki DR200SE
2013 Triumph Trophy SE
2016 Kawasaki Versys 650 LT
2017 Blk/Gold HD Road Glide Ultra
2017 Org Zero DS ZF 6.5/(now is 7.2)
2017 Red Zero SR ZF13 w/ Pwr Tank
2020 Energica EVA SS9
2023 Energica Experia LE
2023 Zero DSR/X

Skidz

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Re: Charging for Dummies
« Reply #28 on: July 19, 2022, 06:58:53 PM »

@MVetter: This site has an interview with Testoni posted on the site: https://www.emobility-engineering.com/energica-eva-ribelle/ It's quite extensive, and in the section "Battery technology" Testoni answers some battery-related questions. I'd love for them to give the exact cell used but hey, can't win them all.

@DonTom: 81s2p means 81 cells in series, 2 in parallel. The voltage is determined by the series value (Normally a nominal voltage of 3.7V per cell so 81S would yield 299.7V). When you hook up two of these in parallel (Grossly dumbed down for clarity) the voltage stays the same, but you can add both capacities of the strings. If a cell is 36Ah, and you put two in parallel, you get 72Ah capacity. Put 3 in parallel and you'd get 108Ah.

To get to 13.4kWh @299,7V you'd need ~45Ah cells, so my guess is they use 81s2p 22.5Ah cells.
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DonTom

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Re: Charging for Dummies
« Reply #29 on: July 20, 2022, 01:33:05 AM »

81s2p means 81 cells in series, 2 in parallel.
Oh, thanks. I never heard the term before. I understand the technical stuff well enough; I was just unfamiliar with the term.


-Don- Auburn, CA
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1971 BMW R75/5
1984 Yamaha Venture
2002 Suzuki DR200SE
2013 Triumph Trophy SE
2016 Kawasaki Versys 650 LT
2017 Blk/Gold HD Road Glide Ultra
2017 Org Zero DS ZF 6.5/(now is 7.2)
2017 Red Zero SR ZF13 w/ Pwr Tank
2020 Energica EVA SS9
2023 Energica Experia LE
2023 Zero DSR/X
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