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[Richard230]

In this video Yammie Noob (not the most reliable source for motorcycle information in my opinion and I don't care much about how his video's tend to be loaded with ads) complains about the price, features and performance of Zero's electric motorcycles. However, I think he does make some good points, especially about the add-on prices that unlock features which are already on the bike:

I should comment that I don't think the title of the clip is fair. If Zero didn't mention the upgrade options and their cost when you bought the bike, or didn't actually deliver their upgrade promises after being paid, then that would be a scam. I think what they are doing with their app store upgrades just rubs ICE motorcycle owners the wrong way. Tesla owners might be more used to this kind of marketing. I don't think Zero's marketing plan is going to be popular with many of their potential customers and might actually cut sales of their new models as people start to check out Energicas once they compare features and the total cost of the bikes, similarly configured.

[TheRan]

I'm not giving a view to Yammie but I imagine his complaints are identical to many others and it's just getting boring now. Zero isn't the first or only manufacturer to charge for already installed upgrades, car or bike. Yes it sucks to know you own something and can't use it to its full potential, but if you want them that badly then suck it up and pay for them like you would even if they weren't already installed. The fact is that the upgrades are cheaper than if you did need to get components swapped out or installed, and probably still cheaper than if you got the installed from the factory as it lowers Zero's production cost by not having to make multiple different versions.

The only complaint that could be had is if these new bikes with the installed but not activated upgrades were more expensive than the previous models without them. I haven't looked into this and I agree that would suck to pay more for something you don't want and can't use, however my guess would be that the cost is the same partly due to the lower production cost and because Zero could take a small hit to their profit to keep the price the same. However this is just a guess, someone else will correct me if it's wrong.

[DonTom]

"especially about the add-on prices that unlock features which are already on the bike"

Nothing new. Tesla does the same thing. Want auto-pilot? Download it to your Tesla Model 3 as they already have the hardware for it the day the car is purchased. You cannot buy it without the hardware installed.  But it won't work without the software.  The 3-hour software download will cost 6K$.   Can be done at any time, such as at midnight when most people are asleep.

I downloaded a free trial version. I tried it, don't care for it. I wouldn't use it even if it were for free.

-Don- Reno, NV

[flynnstig82r]

This reminded me of why I stopped watching YN’s garbage videos a long time ago. Seemingly every factual statement he made in the video was wrong. And he was so desperate to pretend that an SR/S is a slow bike that he drag raced it against a Hayabusa with a rolling 60 MPH start. That ‘busa would have walked away just as rapidly from almost any gas bike, so his stunt only proved that his channel is a waste of everyone’s time.

[UlsterZero]

The one interesting thing I spotted in this video is that it wasn't even a 2022 model SR/S they were using (wrong wheel colour, no cypher iii+ "tank" badge, and ZF14.4 not ZF14.4+ or ZF15.6+ badges on the battery).

So, their complaint about having to pay extra for something already on the bike definitely doesn't apply in this case.  The navigation and reverse parking options both require a dealer install, and the extended range is not available at all.  If it didn't already have them, heated grips also require a component change. The only option which doesn't require a dealer visit is the 10% charging speed increase, which wasn't available as an option when that bike was made, so I don't think it's fair to complain about having to pay for it now.

This lack of attention to detail is always what annoys me when I see these opinion type videos on You Tube.

[Richard230]

The one interesting thing I spotted in this video is that it wasn't even a 2022 model SR/S they were using (wrong wheel colour, no cypher iii+ "tank" badge, and ZF14.4 not ZF14.4+ or ZF15.6+ badges on the battery).

So, their complaint about having to pay extra for something already on the bike definitely doesn't apply in this case.  The navigation and reverse parking options both require a dealer install, and the extended range is not available at all.  If it didn't already have them, heated grips also require a component change. The only option which doesn't require a dealer visit is the 10% charging speed increase, which wasn't available as an option when that bike was made, so I don't think it's fair to complain about having to pay for it now.

This lack of attention to detail is always what annoys me when I see these opinion type videos on You Tube.

YN was clearly using the S/RS as a prop for his "rant". As usual his videos likely are more popular with the social media crowd. I almost never watch his stuff either, but this one got my attention because it mentioned Zero and I personally don't care for Zero's Tesla-style marketing. But I will admit that BMW does the same thing with their motorcycle marketing, but somehow it doesn't seem quite the same to me. Perhaps because after buying BMWs for 25 years I have become numb to their sales approach.

Still, I don't like YN's in-your-face bashing approach to his video clips. It is really unnecessary, but no doubt that makes him popular with his followers.  One thing that I found interesting is why a motorcycle dealer that he is apparently associated with would loan him a bike for a prop and YN would then advise his followers to buy another brand if they want an electric motorcycle?  You would think that after that clip, most dealers would be very reluctant to provide him with another motorcycle to review - unless they are not a Zero dealer and had obtained that S/RS as a trade-in on one of their ICE motorcycles, which would explain why it is not a current model.

[princec]

I've actually grown to like YN's channel over the years... it's matured somewhat, it's not as inaccurate as you make out, and it's quite cleverly directed and put together to grow the audience and incite a little controversy while it does it.
Unfortunately for Zero though this video is pretty much spot-on about how everyone feels about this stuff. The most insightful observation Spite made though was where he pointed out that maybe it wouldn't matter if the base price was $7k cheaper if you didn't want any of the software. Except it's not!

At the end of the day... I'd feel ripped off if I bought a new Zero now. So... I won't. I'm enjoying my pre-rip-off SR/F immensely but unless they backtrack on this sort of thing, Zero won't be my next EV.

Cas

[DonTom]

" I personally don't care for Zero's Tesla-style marketing."

Tesla sells every EV they can make--and they do not advertise anywhere at all.

And they have a long waiting list.

They must be doing something right.

-Don- Reno, NV

[TheRan]

maybe it wouldn't matter if the base price was $7k cheaper if you didn't want any of the software. Except it's not!

It's cheaper by the cost of the upgrades. So a premium SR/f is a smidge under £22k with no upgrades, those upgrades come to £1780. Is the 2022 model £1780 more expensive than what the 2021 was, or any more expensive at all? Or looking at a standard 2022 SR/s which is £20k and the upgrades come to £3808, how does that pricing compare to a 2021 model?

[Richard230]

" I personally don't care for Zero's Tesla-style marketing."

Tesla sells every EV they can make--and they do not advertise anywhere at all.

And they have a long waiting list.

They must be doing something right.

-Don- Reno, NV

I agree that they are very popular. I see more Model 3 cars around my area than I can count. Everyone seems to have one. They are just not for me. I like my 1998-build Saturn station wagon with its roll up windows, plastic body panels don't rust and all analog gauges with push buttons for the AM/FM radio tuning. Not a TFT flat screen in sight and the only LCD is the clock and radio station indicator. 

And of course, I also ride a Royal Enfield with a kick starter and not even a trip meter on the cable-operated inaccurate speedometer. 

[T.S. Zarathustra]

I absolutely hate the Zero sales method of selling you the hardware, like heated grips, and then charging you extra to make it functional. That alone makes me avoid them.
I actually like slower charging. Slower charging makes the battery last longer so I think it should be a setting when you start the charger. Come home at 8 in the evening with half a battery, put the bike on charge and set it to be just fully charged at 7 in the morning when you leave for work.

Tesla is selling a bunch because they are the only ones concentrating exclusively on the market, have until very recently had the edge in range and power and have a big charging structure in place.

[Fran K]

Doesn't this Yammie Noob rent motorcycles and do videos.  I sort of researched him when some stuff got linked and he seemed to be involved with some motorcycle renting connect the two parties.

[flynnstig82r]

I actually like slower charging. Slower charging makes the battery last longer so I think it should be a setting when you start the charger. Come home at 8 in the evening with half a battery, put the bike on charge and set it to be just fully charged at 7 in the morning when you leave for work.

Energicas have this capability. You can set the charge rate anywhere from 1 to 15A on AC.

[valnar]

One point he makes that I agree with is Zero motorcycles are already pretty expensive without shelling out $6000 more to get all the features enabled.  That puts it way above any other comparable motorcycle out there, including the arguably superior Livewire.  I like my Zero motorcycles, but they don't exude quality for the asking price.  At least Livewire (from what I've seen) and Energica (from what I've read) look the part for the $$.

Edit: But more importantly in the grand scheme of things, this is the video people will see, not our little rebuttal thread.  It's something we should care about since that drives mass perception.

[Richard230]

Edit: But more importantly in the grand scheme of things, this is the video people will see, not our little rebuttal thread.  It's something we should care about since that drives mass perception.

That is for sure. Especially if the person watching the Noob's video is a fan of ICE and really doesn't want to see EVs taking over the market in the future.