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Author Topic: SR/F Water Fail  (Read 4756 times)

princec

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SR/F Water Fail
« on: July 01, 2022, 07:49:34 PM »

Alas, it has now happened to me, big-time :(

Torrential rain yesterday. Bike suddenly started throwing error codes at me - "Battery Ineligible" and "Isolation Fault" etc. and the CEL illuminated. I nursed it home, where it subsequently refused to charge or power on ("Isolation Fault").
This is a major blow for me - it's my main transport. I'm hoping that if I leave it to dry out it'll recover in a day or two. I've had this problem before when I washed the bike (gently!) which is why it hardly ever gets washed any more, but this is much more serious - it could have happened to me in the middle of nowhere, or worse, on the way to work, costing me a fortune in lost earnings (I'm self employed - if I don't turn up I don't get paid).

Trouble is I'm afeared of sending it to Davant Bikes to get it "looked at" because doubtless there is no actual fix for this issue, and I worry that I'll experience the same bullshit everyone seems to be experiencing, namely their bikes being gone for months, nothing being fixed, and if lucky getting them back with the same problem returning as soon as it rains again.

Does anyone know where the actual problem might lie under the bodywork and what I could do to mitigate it?

Cas :)
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Starpower

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Re: SR/F Water Fail
« Reply #1 on: July 01, 2022, 08:35:22 PM »

Concerned to hear this, no vehicle should be disabled by rain, no matter how much is falling. I wish I had a suggestion for you, beyond a giant bowl of rice to submerge it in (sorry, too soon).

If it is cost effective you might rent a car for a few days of drying. Are you aware of the TURO app? It's like Air BNB, but for cars. People rent their cars for a very good price, and many will bring it to you.  Good way to check out a Tesla.

Good luck!!
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Richard230

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Re: SR/F Water Fail
« Reply #2 on: July 01, 2022, 10:01:32 PM »

Could you use a hair dryer, or something similar, to dry out the interior components of your bike?
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NoMoreIdeas

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Re: SR/F Water Fail
« Reply #3 on: July 01, 2022, 10:28:59 PM »

I saw this come up quite a bit early on, it seemed the common component that was replaced was the spider bus, its just the mess of power wires on the back of the battery. I'm guessing they didn't waterproof the connections well and with the new spider bus they did, but that would be an area I'd look at and inspect. Maybe even some silicon would help if you found an area that was easily exposed to water.

I love my FX, and I really wanted to jump to the SR/F when it came out but thought I would wait and I'm glad I did. I've been waiting for Zero to address the crappy dealer experience everyone complains about, and the flaws like this and the magic charging on this platform. But here we are, years after its been a well known issue and Zero hasn't done anything about it. It sucks for the people who already have this great bike and these simple problems have not been solved.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2022, 01:51:28 AM by NoMoreIdeas »
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princec

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Re: SR/F Water Fail
« Reply #4 on: July 01, 2022, 10:55:37 PM »

BMW would have issued a recall and had it fixed by now.

Cas :)
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Richard230

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Re: SR/F Water Fail
« Reply #5 on: July 02, 2022, 03:23:07 AM »

BMW would have issued a recall and had it fixed by now.

Cas :)

And if the recall was caused by a supplier's component, they would be sticking it to the supplier, big time.  ;)
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Richard's motorcycle collection:  2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2020 KTM 390 Duke, 2002 Yamaha FZ1 (FZS1000N) and a 1978 Honda Kick 'N Go Senior.

jonblow

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Re: SR/F Water Fail
« Reply #6 on: July 02, 2022, 03:43:27 PM »

I had a similar thing a few months back. Luckily it happened when I was on the way for my service at Spark Motos, and after I had arrived!
Bike was totally unresponsive and dead. Ivan at Spark sorted it out quite quickly (well in a few days anyway) as he's seen this a few times.
It was water getting into the motor controller which sits under the chargers in the tank. He took it apart and totally resealed that area with a sealing compound.
Now my SRF is a beast in the wet, I ride in all weathers and leave it out in the rain whilst I'm working and not had a problem since.
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NervEasy

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Re: SR/F Water Fail
« Reply #7 on: July 03, 2022, 04:10:05 AM »

Do you have a picture that shows where the problem occurs??
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princec

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Re: SR/F Water Fail
« Reply #8 on: July 03, 2022, 04:24:59 AM »

I had a similar thing a few months back. Luckily it happened when I was on the way for my service at Spark Motos, and after I had arrived!
Bike was totally unresponsive and dead. Ivan at Spark sorted it out quite quickly (well in a few days anyway) as he's seen this a few times.
It was water getting into the motor controller which sits under the chargers in the tank. He took it apart and totally resealed that area with a sealing compound.
Now my SRF is a beast in the wet, I ride in all weathers and leave it out in the rain whilst I'm working and not had a problem since.
If you can get any more detail on this it'd be greatly appreciated; I suspect my dealers are going to be feeling their way in the dark here and I want them to come up with a pragmatic solution. Ie. not one that involves having my bike for 3 months waiting for Zero to ship them an entire replacement electronics suite that then simply breaks the next time it gets wet again.

Cas :)
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Zelidar

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Re: SR/F Water Fail
« Reply #9 on: July 04, 2022, 10:58:38 AM »

...  It was water getting into the motor controller which sits under the chargers in the tank. He took it apart and totally resealed that area with a sealing compound ...

Now just over 42'000 km, this year I've experienced twice what princec described. Letting it dry for a moment (< 1 hour if in the sun and with using an hair blower) was enough to get me moving again. Since I didn't have this type of problem before, I think it is an "aging" problem.

Thank you jonblow for the precious feedback, my bike is due to be checked for water ingress in two days at the dealership, I will make sure to let them know what you wrote here.
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jonblow

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Re: SR/F Water Fail
« Reply #10 on: July 04, 2022, 10:52:39 PM »

Do you have a picture that shows where the problem occurs??

No, sorry I don't but I believe the water gets in at the bottom of the bike as it's sprayed up by the front wheel. That whole area is an achilles heel that needs waterproofing properly. As I said Ivan seems to have done a good job sealing that area now.
The other area is under the seat where the 12v battery is. be very careful when washing the bike not to spray any water around that area. I did that a few years back and the bike was back at the dealers for about a month afterwards whilst they fixed it (new battery, new wiring and a new LCD screen!)
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princec

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Re: SR/F Water Fail
« Reply #11 on: July 04, 2022, 11:52:32 PM »

Thanks jonblow - I'll be talking to the dealers in a couple of weeks.
Bike's now dried out and working properly again btw. Daren't wash it though because I use it every day :(

Cas :)
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2020_SRS_Commuter

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Re: SR/F Water Fail
« Reply #12 on: November 11, 2022, 02:18:00 AM »

I'm going to resurrect this thread rather than start a new one.

For two years, my SRS had no problem in rain. And I rode in rain... A LOT. Probably as much or more than any one else, because of where I live. Recently, and shortly after warranty expired, after a heavy rain it had the Isolation Fault until it dried out, and I couldn't charge the battery. Then it happened again in very light rain. As a simple exploration as to what could be done, I stuffed grocery bags around the chargers power connections and particularly at the front behind the plastic cover that has the horn facing out of it, in case water thrown by the front wheel was going in where the chargers are, or perhaps down into where the BMS board is. This did not help so I took them back out. Last week it happened again and I was left at work with just barely enough to get home, and unable to charge there due to the pack being ineligible due to the faults. I had to ride all the way home at 40mph in heavy rain on a high speed highway to get back, ducking off into the emergency lane when cars went by to try to be safer. At home I aimed an electric leaf blower into the front of the bike where the horn is, and let it run for 30 minutes. Then I could clear the faults and charge. The way the faults manifested was I could clear them, and they might come back, but sometimes they didn't. Then when I tried to charge, after about two seconds of charging the fault would re-occur. Also curiously if I turned on the right blinker it worked fine, but the left blinker would set a code that a light was out or something, even though it worked fine. The light housing were dry inside and I also blew out the handlebar control with compressed air but it didnt help. I also made sure the fuses and wiring around the 12v battery were dry, and disconnected my accessories in case they were in issue. None of that was the problem.

So I'm thinking... what changed? What degraded? Looking at the exploded diagram of the battery pack I see there is a potential entry point where the cabling goes in to the BMS at the top front of the pack. At the back of the pack, there is a cable assy that enters the pack from the top too, I suppose connecting to the chargers as it goes out the top, and that brings charger power into the pack and out to the motor controller at the bottom of the bike. The part number for this cabling assy is 12-08163 "Power Bus Hardware Service Assembly".

Now... where it goes in from the top it passes through an aperture with foam as a seal, in the manner of weather-stripping. Foam degrades. Except for the drying potentially of some waterproofing grease that may or may not have been applied when the bike was assembled, nothing has changed or could have changed. But foam definitely degrades over time.

My theory is the water is entering from the top, at the back. The front I already tried stuffing that full of bags and it didn't work. I even set the code with a gentle rinse with a hose while washing the bike and didnt squirt water in that area at all.

If you have any ideas or input feel free to chime in. What Im going to do to test this is stuff as many plastic grocery bags as possible into this area at the back where the charger wires go down, so no water spray can get in there, and see what happens. If that works, I will probably follow up with a heavy application of silicon sealer all over the top seam of the battery at the rear.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2022, 02:20:18 AM by 2020_SRS_Commuter »
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SandyGnomes

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Re: SR/F Water Fail
« Reply #13 on: November 11, 2022, 06:02:39 PM »

My sr/s did this once, very similar to the first description in this thread, about 6 months ago. Dealer told me a recall was imminent so I waited. But heard nothing.

In the mean time I noticed when washing the bike the charge socket would fill with water and a drain hole in the side of the socket seems to aim at unsealed wires below (might be a type 2 socket thing?). Added a rubber plug on the charge socket from the end of my charge cable and a piece of hose from the drain hole out to part of the frame.  I've ridden in some pretty bad rain a couple of times since and never even had an error.  I wasn't sure there wasn't something in the firmware updates which had stopped it though.
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2020_SRS_Commuter

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Re: SR/F Water Fail
« Reply #14 on: November 11, 2022, 09:30:57 PM »

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