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[MrMogensen]

Interesting…

https://www.energicamotor.com/en/news/energica-new-industrial-collaboration-with-siemens-digital-industries-software/

[PWM]

Sure hope they are partnering to effect charge station design in an effort to manage EV pack thermals because an integrated active cooling subsystem will NOT provide the heat-load capacity to offset heat generated inside a 20KWh block shaped battery pack - a flat pack as in car is somewhat easier to approach because of exposed surface area.

Siemens and Energica could pave the way to new thinking...in addition to electrical services why not include a fluids connection from the charge station - a separate interface such that EVs equipped can actually charge 20-80% in 5-minutes.  The modification to battery pack is simple the ROI for charger stations assured by the public's insistence to emulate gas station fill-up times.

Refrigerant based system sufficient to offset heat-load from rapid charge is the problem, it's heavy and not energy efficient.  Integrated it to charge station.  Thermal management when motoring then becomes passive radiator w/ smallish recirculating pump because the load demand is transient not steady state.

Let's face facts that lithium ion chemistry is here to stay, not seeing alternative ideas for Energica's sake but super happy they are chasing technology in the form of high-end modeling tools.

[Skidz]

That sound like a very sane method of mitigating the thermal issues while charging, albeit a bit cumbersome. Getting a liquid connector integrated in a high voltage connector sound a bit dodgy to me, but perhaps it can be done?

[PWM]

Getting a liquid connector integrated in a high voltage connector sound a bit dodgy to me, but perhaps it can be done?

Agreed.  Best to keep the charger and chiller independent so no impact to CCSx standards...integrate the functionality...charge rate is proportional to temperature rise...nothing new as it remains self limiting by EV type.

[EVriderDK]

Sure hope they are partnering to effect charge station design in an effort to manage EV pack thermals because an integrated active cooling subsystem will NOT provide the heat-load capacity to offset heat generated inside a 20KWh block shaped battery pack - a flat pack as in car is somewhat easier to approach because of exposed surface area.

Siemens and Energica could pave the way to new thinking...in addition to electrical services why not include a fluids connection from the charge station - a separate interface such that EVs equipped can actually charge 20-80% in 5-minutes.  The modification to battery pack is simple the ROI for charger stations assured by the public's insistence to emulate gas station fill-up times.

Refrigerant based system sufficient to offset heat-load from rapid charge is the problem, it's heavy and not energy efficient.  Integrated it to charge station.  Thermal management when motoring then becomes passive radiator w/ smallish recirculating pump because the load demand is transient not steady state.

Let's face facts that lithium ion chemistry is here to stay, not seeing alternative ideas for Energica's sake but super happy they are chasing technology in the form of high-end modeling tools.

That would be quite nice

[flynnstig82r]

With proper cooling, an Energica pack should be able to charge at 56 kW from a 150 kW station (150 / 800 volts for cars * 300 volts for Energica pack) and cut charge times by more than half. Depending on how much throttling the Experia has with the new layout, the real-world charge times could be cut by even more. I’m hoping this is what Energica is planning with this partnership. Who wouldn’t love to see 10-12 min 20->80% charge sessions?

[DonTom]

Who wouldn’t love to see 10-12 min 20->80% charge sessions?

Me. I normally like longer breaks! The last time I charged at Cisco Grove, CA  I had lunch at the Subway sandwich place that is right next to the charge stations. I eat fairly fast, but the bike was at 100% SOC for several minutes before I got done with my lunch and I really wanted to disconnect by around 85% SOC or so.


I find the Energica has two charge modes for a lunch stop:


1. Way too fast (when CCS is used).


2. Way too slow (when J-1772 is used).


If they had a 6KW AC charger in there, it would be just about right for a lunch stop.


-Don-  Reno, NV

[flynnstig82r]

You can always set a lower charge rate. I’ve never had to do that, but I’ve thought about doing it for longer stops to avoid being charged for being parked with a full battery.

[DonTom]

You can always set a lower charge rate. I’ve never had to do that, but I’ve thought about doing it for longer stops to avoid being charged for being parked with a full battery.

Can you lower the charge rate on CCS?  I have never tried that. In the past, you didn't want to do that anyway because they were charging for the time at the CCS charge stations. Was a real rip-off for motorcycles as it would cost twice as much for a charge than gasoline would then cost for the same distance.


I think CA recently made that illegal, because the charge station could be programed to charge less power and take more time. IOW, the charger controlled the time it took. That is much like a gas station charging for the time it takes to fill the tank and then they reduce the gasoline flow speed.


I have noticed CCS chargers that use to cost me more than ten bucks now are less than two bucks. And it's not just CA. Seems they have all changed, even here in NV--a lot cheaper for motorcycles than it used to be.


OTOH, perhaps they would get repaired more often if they charged us more.


-Don-  Reno, NV

[MVetter]

I think CA recently made that illegal, because the charge station could be programed to charge less power and take more time. IOW, the charger controlled the time it took. That is much like a gas station charging for the time it takes to fill the tank and then they reduce the gasoline flow speed.

No. the regulation is that, starting by 2023 all new CCS stations must bill by kWh and have posted pricing. All existing infrastructure has until 2033 (yes, twenty thirty-three) to retrofit those changes.

[flynnstig82r]

You can always set a lower charge rate. I’ve never had to do that, but I’ve thought about doing it for longer stops to avoid being charged for being parked with a full battery.

Can you lower the charge rate on CCS?  I have never tried that.

Yes, same method as with AC charging but in increments of 5A.

[DonTom]

No. the regulation is that, starting by 2023 all new CCS stations must bill by kWh and have posted pricing. All existing infrastructure has until 2033 (yes, twenty thirty-three) to retrofit those changes.

OIC, so why has the price been so much cheaper for a CCS charge lately?  I think everywhere. When I first CCS charged my Energica it cost more than ten bucks. Lately, it has been under two bucks. So what has changed?


-Don-  Reno, NV

[MVetter]

OIC, so why has the price been so much cheaper for a CCS charge lately?  I think everywhere. When I first CCS charged my Energica it cost more than ten bucks. Lately, it has been under two bucks. So what has changed?

Some companies preemptively moved to the $/kWh model that were previously time based. EVgo, for example, used to bill per minute, and as such a full charge could be as much as $20 for an hour, or ~$10 for our 30 minute packs. They moved to something like $0.40-0.50/kWh a while back which has made it cost like $3-4. Electrify America is still usually the cheapest of the paid stations, especially if you give them the $4/month for the flat rate of $0.31/kWh. I usually get a full charge for under $3.

[DonTom]

Some companies preemptively moved to the $/kWh model that were previously time based. EVgo, for example, used to bill per minute, and as such a full charge could be as much as $20 for an hour, or ~$10 for our 30 minute packs. They moved to something like $0.40-0.50/kWh a while back which has made it cost like $3-4. Electrify America is still usually the cheapest of the paid stations, especially if you give them the $4/month for the flat rate of $0.31/kWh. I usually get a full charge for under $3.

That explains it well. I use EV-GO a lot. But lately most often ChargePoint because of their locations are perfect for me. Such as at Cisco Grove or in Grass Valley, CA between here and Auburn, CA  I used to pay for the $4.00 per month for EA until I managed to totally avoid them for an entire year and paid $48.00 for nothing at all. But now that I have been keeping my Energica mostly in Reno, I have been changing a lot at the AE in Fernley, NV Wal*Mart.


Tomorrow, I am going to ride my Zero SR to Auburn. They also have a J-1772 at Cisco Grove, two 7.2 KW plugs. I charge my 2017 SR there at ~8 KW by hogging up both the J-plugs (two external 3.3 KW chargers). Then I can take Hwy 20 or I-80 to Auburn.  The SR will now be better in Auburn, CA as they just put in a high-power free J-station in at Georgetown, CA. On the way to a lot of nice riding locations.


-Don- Reno, NV

[Sklith]

Yes, same method as with AC charging but in increments of 5A.

Our Energicas are the only EVs which allow the user to select how many amps they can DC charge at, at least as far as I know. Porsche allows Taycan owners to select a slower profile but not anywhere in between.