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[DonTom]

Do others find CCS chargers to be ridiculously unreliable?


I wanted to go for a long ride on my Energica today, but every direction has the CCS chargers out of service. Carson City, Garnerville, Falon, Hawthorne, NV -all CCS chargers down according to Plugshare. Donner Summit Rest both directions, CCS is out as well as several other places.  Even when they are not out, sometimes they are difficult to get past the initiation process without a failure message and takes several tries.


And when they are down, it is often for months before they are fixed.


Is this a world-wide issue?


-Don-  Reno, NV

[Skidz]

In NL the CSS chargers show available on Plugshare and Shell Recharge so it's regional I'm afraid.

[princec]

Yep, they're often f*cked here in the UK too. I suppose the problem is that they have a great big AC/DC converter in them delivering loads of power and they just keep going pop, just like the rubbishy little ones in Zeros.

Cas

[MVetter]

These bikes have a short timeout for communications with the CCS stations. That's why I advise two things:

1.) Never ever ever ever ever plug in first. I don't care what the station says. I initiate the charge sequence and plug in last. Very last step.

2.) I position my bike either by pulling up at an angle with the front wheel facing to the right of the station or entirely perpendicular in the parking spot with the kickstand side towards the station. This means when I plug in there is pressure from the weight of the cable pushing downward on the CP pin (communications). I have seen stations fail to start because the weight of the cable is pulling it down which makes a bad connection on CP despite the cable lock.

[Stonewolf]

The tip Energica UK gave me is to just lean on the connector a little until the pin comes up and as a result I rarely have communication failures. As MVetter said the heavy cable can tug the connector slightly out of place before it locks so I always try to drape it over one of the handlebars.

[princec]

That too is a thing, but most of the time, the machines are literally not working at all.

Cas

[PWM]

You don't hear such nuisance w/ Tesla owners using Tesla charge stations...there's a clear reason why.

Connector manufacturers of different brands do not comply to specifications or interpret specifications for standards differently and add tolerance stack-up for pin-socket engagement because again the bit parts are sourced from different suppliers and this reliability issue becomes commonplace in many industries...

Tesla is vertically integrated and efficient at procurement and engineering across product families that work in harmony, simple reason.

[DonTom]

You don't hear such nuisance w/ Tesla owners using Tesla charge stations...there's a clear reason why.

Connector manufacturers of different brands do not comply to specifications or interpret specifications for standards differently and add tolerance stack-up for pin-socket engagement because again the bit parts are sourced from different suppliers and this reliability issue becomes commonplace in many industries...

Tesla is vertically integrated and efficient at procurement and engineering across product families that work in harmony, simple reason.

Yes, unlike Tesla, CCS runs a very complicated program so it can charge almost any size EV battery of almost any voltage, etc. That's asking for trouble. Zero is just a bit too low of a voltage--but I think I heard somewhere that even Zero was trying to get their low voltage battery to work with CCS at first. But I guess that was asking for a bit too little of a voltage from CCS.


And I too have noticed to NOT follow the instructions to get a CCS charge on an Energica.  It is more likely to work by not plugging in first, unlike what most CCS charger say "Plug in first". But once in a while that does work also.  Depends on the make of charger.


-Don-  Reno, NV

[DonTom]

These bikes have a short timeout for communications with the CCS stations. That's why I advise two things:

1.) Never ever ever ever ever plug in first. I don't care what the station says. I initiate the charge sequence and plug in last. Very last step.

2.) I position my bike either by pulling up at an angle with the front wheel facing to the right of the station or entirely perpendicular in the parking spot with the kickstand side towards the station. This means when I plug in there is pressure from the weight of the cable pushing downward on the CP pin (communications). I have seen stations fail to start because the weight of the cable is pulling it down which makes a bad connection on CP despite the cable lock.

Why doesn't Energica increase the timeout time for the initiation?


I didn't know about issue number 2 above. I have been doing that one all wrong, so thanks for that info.   That could explain some of my intermittent issues.


But what I am complaining here now with this thread is the countless CCS chargers that are off line for everybody. Down for various reasons. Even when for FW upgrades as in Carson City right now.


That's an important location for me and it's the only CCS charger for many miles. And they only have the one there.


Why does it take weeks to complete a FW update?  I would think an hour would be more than enough time for a FW update.


-Don-  Reno, NV

[ultrarnr]

DomTom, Zero actually offered a CHAdeMO adapter for awhile. I had one on order for about six months for my Zero SR before Zero canceled it. Their system worked well with some systems, not so well on others. Unfortunately for me the systems their CHAdeMO system worked well with were primarily on the east coast and the systems around Zero were the ones that it didn't work so well with. Rather than tweak their adapter they gave up. 

[rgutt]

DomTom, Zero actually offered a CHAdeMO adapter for awhile. I had one on order for about six months for my Zero SR before Zero canceled it. Their system worked well with some systems, not so well on others. Unfortunately for me the systems their CHAdeMO system worked well with were primarily on the east coast and the systems around Zero were the ones that it didn't work so well with. Rather than tweak their adapter they gave up. 

Just to clarify your statement, Zero couldn't have made the CHAdeMO system work simply by changing their plug. The specification for the system at the time was supposed to include down to 50 volts. Since nearly all electric cars run in the hundreds of volts, most of systems actually built wouldn't charge under something like 200 volts. Technically, that made the systems not CHAdeMO compliant, but Zero can't do anything about that. Since then (2017ish maybe), the CHAdeMO minimum voltage specification has been upped to 150 volts.

[MVetter]

Zero's story is that stations weren't compliant. A closer look, however, reveals that Zero was nowhere near being in compliance with Chademo's standards. The bikes only have half a contactor for starters.

[DonTom]

Zero's story is that stations weren't compliant. A closer look, however, reveals that Zero was nowhere near being in compliance with Chademo's standards. The bikes only have half a contactor for starters.

What is a "half" contactor?


-Don- Reno, NV

[NEW2elec]

Just one terminal? Just plus or minus side not both?

[DonTom]

Just one terminal? Just plus or minus side not both?

An open circuit is an open circuit either way.  How could the charger even know the difference?


-Don-  Reno, NV