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[Zelidar]

Brought it to my dealer 6 weeks ago, they checked with Zero for over a week and decided to replace the battery.

Same story for me in the fall last year at about 33'000 km: magic charging and unusable range estimations. I brought it to the dealer to download the full log and send it to Zero European headquarters. A couple of days later the diagnostic: the original battery had lost one or more modules and needed be replaced. Now with a new battery and updated firmwares (up to MBB v23 with OTA) it works back as it should. Looks like I will pass the 40'000 km mark this month.

Overall I must say, when comparing with both Energica and Harley Davidson, I am a bit surprised that a company producing exclusively electric motorcycles since 2006 still seems to struggle with their software. I do love their hardware though.

[DonTom]

There is nothing you can do until Zero decides to fix it.

Next time, buy an Energica instead of a Zero. BTW, any idea of the cause of the "magic charging"?  I never had that issue on my 2017 SR, but I did when the battery went bad on my 2017 DS.


Is the "Magic charging" an issue with all the newer bikes? Does it happen on all SR/F's or only on some?  Could it be a temperature related issue or something like that?

 
-Don-  Reno, NV

[Richard230]

There is no "magic charging" on either my daughter's 2014 S nor on my 2018 S. Neither bike even shows a 1% increase in battery SOC when turned off and then turned back on. So what changed with the SR/F models?     Is it the Cybermen's programming? 

[noyesknifer]

You'd think Zero would have some kind of financial incentive to fix the root cause of the issue, due to how many batteries they are replacing for free.

[Auriga]

Ironically I have some insight into this.

The really crazy battery SOC drops, most likely like the OP, have been shown to be hardware defects. Zero gets a full refund from Farasis for these.

There are definitely some software issues with the algorithm itself, and they've certainly indicated that they're trying to fix both problems, but it's not quite as clear cut as ya'll think.

[DonTom]

There is no "magic charging" on either my daughter's 2014 S nor on my 2018 S. Neither bike even shows a 1% increase in battery SOC when turned off and then turned back on.

On my 2017 Zero SR, when new, if I stopped the bike at 95% SOC for 30 minutes of it being keyed totally off, when I got back to the bike it would show 100% SOC when I turned the key back on.


The "problem" (if we can call it that) went away by itself. It could have been right after a FW update, but not sure.


When the bike was new, I would often ride it to the local Denny's in Auburn, starting from a full charge from my house.  I would have 95% SOC when I got to the Denny's.  After I had my meal and got back to the bike, it would then be 100% SOC. I noticed it a lot back then because I fairly often went to that Denny's for breakfast. It only happened when the SOC was at 95% SOC or above. It would NOT do it the 2nd time down to 95% SOC after the first "magic charge" where I start again at 100% SOC.


But now I can no longer check that exactly like I used to, because the Denny's in Auburn was torn down in 2018. But I have not noticed the issue for years. Now I have to ride all the way to New Castle for a Denny's and that takes a bit more than that 5% SOC.


-Don-  Reno, NV

[jotjotde]

Hi, for the past couple months, the estimated range and SOC for my Zero SR/F has been around half of what it should be.  Today I took a 35 mile freeway ride, and it took me from 100% to 0%. 20 minutes later I keyed the bike on to check the SOC, and the SOC is now 53%.  I have completely drained the battery before and charged it, and seems like the battery capacity is OK based on my killa-watt numbers.  I have the previous firmware version, the one before the firmware that forces you to have the CANYON ride mode.   Don't really want to update the firmware because of that.  Bike is currently out of regular warranty but still under the battery warranty.  Any tips besides taking the bike to the dealer?

[/size]

Hi there from Germany.
Exactly the same here.
Moreover, the battery doesn't charge to 100 % some times. Yesterday it charged to 100%, stopped but without turning off, then SoC went to 92 % without shutting off or restarting charging.
I claimed that at my dealer mid April. After a weeklong diagnosis and alleged discussion with Zero it was decided I will get a new battery.
The new one should have been here end of May. I will deem myself lucky if it will be here this week (pray for me plesase  ).
Regards,
Jay

[jotjotde]

There is nothing you can do until Zero decides to fix it.

Next time, buy an Energica instead of a Zero. BTW, any idea of the cause of the "magic charging"?  I never had that issue on my 2017 SR, but I did when the battery went bad on my 2017 DS.


Is the "Magic charging" an issue with all the newer bikes? Does it happen on all SR/F's or only on some?  Could it be a temperature related issue or something like that?

 
-Don-  Reno, NV

In my view it might be a problem of battery chemistry.
From the old acid batteries you maybe know that effect, if it is discharged quickly, causing local depletion of ions in the electrolyte for example.
It needs some time to recover, because chemically (electrolyte concentration) the battery has to rebalance.

[Richard230]

There is nothing you can do until Zero decides to fix it.

Next time, buy an Energica instead of a Zero. BTW, any idea of the cause of the "magic charging"?  I never had that issue on my 2017 SR, but I did when the battery went bad on my 2017 DS.


Is the "Magic charging" an issue with all the newer bikes? Does it happen on all SR/F's or only on some?  Could it be a temperature related issue or something like that?

 
-Don-  Reno, NV

In my view it might be a problem of battery chemistry.
From the old acid batteries you maybe know that effect, if it is discharged quickly, causing local depletion of ions in the electrolyte for example.
It needs some time to recover, because chemically (electrolyte concentration) the battery has to rebalance.

It could also be that Zero ended up with some bad battery cells from their Chinese supplier and the weak cells are what is causing the charging and SOC problems. When I had my 2010 Electric Motorsport GPR-S with its 24 prismatic Hi Power brand batteries. They were all of varying quality and some would deplete and charge faster than others. That gave the bike's very basic BMS fits.

I might add that over the past couple of years (ever since the pandemic started) I have bought some lousy lead-acid car and motorcycle batteries, that wouldn't hold a charge for more than a few days, without being constantly connected to a battery maintainer. I have gone through two car and two motorcycle batteries before i found a good one that worked the way batteries should. 

[DonTom]

It could also be that Zero ended up with some bad battery cells from their Chinese supplier and the weak cells are what is causing the charging and SOC problems. When I had my 2010 Electric Motorsport GPR-S with its 24 prismatic Hi Power brand batteries. They were all of varying quality and some would deplete and charge faster than others. That gave the bike's very basic BMS fits.

I might add that over the past couple of years (ever since the pandemic started) I have bought some lousy lead-acid car and motorcycle batteries, that wouldn't hold a charge for more than a few days, without being constantly connected to a battery maintainer. I have gone through two car and two motorcycle batteries before i found a good one that worked the way batteries should. 

Have you noticed "magic charging" with your Zero?  I was thinking this issue is only on the SR/F and SR/S. And if that is the case, it cannot be the battery because AFAIK, the same battery is used in other models.


I don't know if my old issue from 95% to 100% SOC would be considered the same "magic charging" issue or not, as it only did it at 95% SOC or above and a half hour wait to get to 100% SOC. I never considered it to be a real problem.


-Don- Reno, NV

[MVetter]

It could also be that Zero ended up with some bad battery cells from their Chinese supplier and the weak cells are what is causing the charging and SOC problems. When I had my 2010 Electric Motorsport GPR-S with its 24 prismatic Hi Power brand batteries. They were all of varying quality and some would deplete and charge faster than others. That gave the bike's very basic BMS fits.

Then this problem would manifest in the exact same way on 2018+ S, SR, DS, DSR, FX, FXS, and FXE models. It does not. This is firmware.

[Zelidar]

Ironically I have some insight into this. [...] Zero gets a full refund from Farasis for these.

Thanks Auriga, I strongly suspected that. I have yet to know a SR/S/F with over 30'000 km which still uses its original battery.

[Auriga]

It could also be that Zero ended up with some bad battery cells from their Chinese supplier and the weak cells are what is causing the charging and SOC problems. When I had my 2010 Electric Motorsport GPR-S with its 24 prismatic Hi Power brand batteries. They were all of varying quality and some would deplete and charge faster than others. That gave the bike's very basic BMS fits.

Then this problem would manifest in the exact same way on 2018+ S, SR, DS, DSR, FX, FXS, and FXE models. It does not. This is firmware.

I'd argue the opposite, if it was firmware, every SR/SRF/SRS would have this in the same way. And they don't.

Lithium Ion Battery Manufacturing is very hard. It could easily be some kind of small processing defect or batch issue that started after the SRF release in 2020+. Maybe the cells or pack modules are produced on different lines or at different factories for different form factors. Neither of us have nearly enough information to make this claim. I'd hope that if it was firmware they'd have found and patched it by now, but who knows with them.

[princec]

It could well be firmware, when it's fed with a duff bit of data from an EEPROM that gets it stuck into a broken state.

Cas

[MVetter]

I'd argue the opposite, if it was firmware, every SR/SRF/SRS would have this in the same way. And they don't.

And yet the egregious magic charging began with Firmware v17.