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[HVMoto]

Hello all!

Got to spend some time today troubleshooting one of the two 2013 DS (police) motorcycles I bought at auction last month. Neither bike was a runner so I'm starting from zero. Display lights when keyed on, but not without error codes and a low battery warning. I've ordered parts (thanks to the unofficial manual!) to make cables for the BMS and OBD2 ports. Bike connects via bluetooth to app but comes up as unknown so no help there. Zerospy app says pack voltage at 107.7 (see attached photo) and I measured 107.1 volts using a multimeter at the DC-DC connector.

Here's the details of the steps I've taken...

Plugged in to charge at 110v outlet with killawatt meter (onboard charger - meanwell 2s2p)

Display shows 8 red error flashes (appears to be steady red flashing)
green charging light flashing
killawatt meter - .23 amp to .29 amp / 9.8 watts to 14.5 watts

BMS - flashing red (first LED) appears to be steady ~ once per second

Bike keyed on (still plugged in)
2-4 red flashes (Battery Management System (BMS) Throttle Disable)

Bike keyed off (no change on killawatt meter)
green charging light on
no red error flashes

Unplug bike, put Kickstand up, and Keyed on
display comes on
green ready light
2-1 red error flash (contactor error)

Kickstand down and bike keyed off.

Bike plugged in and one audible click heard.
Green charging light illuminates 3 times then goes off.
2-1 red error flash (contactor error)
killawatt meter - .23 amp to .29 amp / 9.8 watts to 14.5 watts

Bike keyed on
2-1 red error flash (contactor error)
no green charging light
killawatt meter - .23 amp to .29 amp / 9.8 watts to 14.5 watts

Bike keyed off and unplugged
BMS reset (hardware and software)
No change on BMS (same red flashing pattern)
2-1 red error flash (contactor error)
No green charging flash but it comes on again after a few hours being plugged in.

Even though the charging lights come on (occasionally), there appears to be no charging occurring. Voltage measured at the CCU (charger in) measured at 115.8 volts.

Any suggestions as to what further troubleshooting can be done?

[HVMoto]

Update: I left the bike on the charger and checked a few hours later.

Display shows steady red error flashes and green charging light flashing. Keyed the bike on and throttle disable red flashes appear. Green charging light still flashing. Keyed off and red error flashes cease, only green charging light flashing.

I checked voltage from the onboard charger to the CCU (C+ and C-) and it's 115.9v. I checked voltage from the CCU out to the battery (B+ and B-) and it's only 85.1 volts. Not sure if that means I have a bad CCU but I would think charging voltage to the battery would have to be at least higher than 107v (current battery voltage) to have any affect.

[NEW2elec]

Well first thing to do is get with Zero and see if the battery was ever replaced under the recall, I don't know if this applied to the DSP models or just civilian bikes.  If you can get a new battery for it then other repairs could be worth it.

My 13 DS is about dead and can only get about 35 miles before it drops power.  I've dropped the registration on it for that reason.


If one of the bikes works you kind of got lucky.  These aren't like getting an old 80s gas bike and then doing a little wrenching brings them back to life.  Low miles mean nothing because the battery is degrading no matter what and lack of use and charging only makes it worse.

As for your bike, if it's giving a bad contactor error then that would be a starting point to check.  But the main bike board could be failing the BMS could have issues.  The fact it's showing 107 volts is a good sign.
Again check on the battery replacement and then maybe take them to a dealer but be ready for some bad news.

Here is the unofficial manual and the Log file Parser if they help. 

https://zeromanual.com/wiki/Main_Page

https://home.hasslers.net/zerologparser/log_parser.php

[staples]

If this is true, the battery voltage is below 0% SOC. People have discussed trying to revive fully discharged batteries, but depending on how long it has been sitting dead, it might be dead.

I checked voltage from the CCU out to the battery (B+ and B-) and it's only 85.1 volts.

[HVMoto]

Well first thing to do is get with Zero and see if the battery was ever replaced under the recall, I don't know if this applied to the DSP models or just civilian bikes.  If you can get a new battery for it then other repairs could be worth it.

Thanks for the input! I'll get in touch with Zero to confirm on batteries, they are ZF 9.4 and have a green 2015 sticker on top, so maybe already replaced.

My 13 DS is about dead and can only get about 35 miles before it drops power.  I've dropped the registration on it for that reason.

I live in the mountains with a 6 mile one way dirt road ride to my mailbox, and a 10 mile ride to the only place to eat for 40 miles (a popular rider destination), so 30 miles roundtrip on a charge works for me.

If one of the bikes works you kind of got lucky.  These aren't like getting an old 80s gas bike and then doing a little wrenching brings them back to life.  Low miles mean nothing because the battery is degrading no matter what and lack of use and charging only makes it worse.

After reading many posts here I get that's the sentiment, seems they could be more of a headache than it's worth. On the other hand, I've already discovered quite a bit of helpful information here (especially in the older posts) that may pertain to most of the errors/issues I'm facing. It's only been a few weeks, but I'm still hopeful.

As for your bike, if it's giving a bad contactor error then that would be a starting point to check.  But the main bike board could be failing the BMS could have issues.  The fact it's showing 107 volts is a good sign.
Again check on the battery replacement and then maybe take them to a dealer but be ready for some bad news.

I'm thankful the battery voltage is in range and I do think the contactor is an issue as I hear no loud click when keying the bike on.

I'll eventually bring it down to Hollywood Electrics for dealer work, but I'd like to understand the bike better before I do so. The unofficial manual has been terrific, thanks for both links.

If this is true, the battery voltage is below 0% SOC. People have discussed trying to revive fully discharged batteries, but depending on how long it has been sitting dead, it might be dead.

I checked voltage from the CCU out to the battery (B+ and B-) and it's only 85.1 volts.

It's 85 volts checking at the CCU (or controller) with a multimeter while on onboard charge, it's 107.5 volts at the DC-DC converter (whether charging or not - which I think is actual battery voltage).

Yesterday I also connected an external charge (4 meanwells from the other bike) and voltage was 116 at the CCU and controller, but same symptoms, battery not accepting charging input.

[Auriga]

Yes, if the BMS throws an error and opens its contactor, you will be unable to charge it. With the cables and maybe some digging for passwords, you should be able to pull BMS logs over serial. That should tell you why the BMS is opening its contactor at least.

Otherwise you're lucky to have Hollywood Electrics nearby, they should be able to fix you up nicely.

[NEW2elec]

Oh very good.  Harlan at HE knows these bikes inside and out.  I'd trust whatever route he tells you to take.

Good luck.

[ELEC_CRAZY]

HI 

I had some experience with my FX2014 (two battery packs)
the reset or soft reset didn't fix it so I disassemble
the pack and unplug the BMS (with about 20pins black connector)
for few sec and plug it back, then charged the pack to full
and it worked like new..

[HVMoto]

Some good news. Zero support already replied and let me know that the batteries in both bikes were replaced in 2016 as part of the 2013 SDS Monolith Replacement Campaign.

[HVMoto]

After further reading it looks like one of the errors is an isolation fault (steady red blinking on display) yet I only see this occasionally. I took the belly pan off and there is a considerable amount of dirt/debris on the chargers and cables (see photo). Also noticed a bit of corrosion (blueish green) at the charger inputs to the CCU. Was also quite a bit of dirt/grease/grim up around the aluminum box on top of the battery. I'll be proceeding carefully and cleaning as best I can, probably at least take the chargers off to clean/confirm all 4 are functioning.

Question on the CCU. I notice the red light comes on briefly when bike is plugged in, and a 2-3 sequence red flash when power is disconnected. Any idea if that is a normal function?

[HVMoto]

Finally got an OBD2 to USB connector made. Based on an older post, I followed a suggestion from Auriga and used Tera Term. Set it up for serial. Set terminal receive to: auto, transmit to: CR+LF, and serial port to: 38400. Menu popped up right after keyed on. I saved the logs but not sure what I'm looking for. I do see the throttle disable and contactor error message confirmed.

***  Info Messages
 - INFO    : Kickstand switch is in DOWN position

***  Warning Messages
 - WARNING : BMS throttle enable wire is inactive

***  Error Messages
 - ERROR   : Contactor is Open

It's going to be a while before I can get to a dealer, is there anything I can do going forward? Looking at BMS data the battery pack appears to be in good shape, here's BMS Data...

****************************************
*               BMS Data               *
****************************************

*************  BMS #0  ***************
  - BMS Board Rev             :  03
  - BMS Firmware Rev          :  37
  - CAN Rx in last second     :   55

  - Pack SOC                  :  100%
  - Fuel Gauge                :  100%
  - Age of SOC Data           :  27 ms

  - Model Year                : 2000
  - Pack Capacity             :   0 AH
  - Pack Capacity Remaining   :   0 AH
  - Total Energy Used         : 188 KWH
  - Number Of Bricks          :   0

  - Pack Discharge Current    :   0 A
  - Pack Sum Voltage          :  106.295 V
  - Sag-Adj Pack Sum Voltage  :  106.298 V
  - Bank Voltages             :     1    2    3    4    5    6    7    8    9   10   11   12   13   14   15   16   17   18   19   20   21   22   23   24   25   26   27   28
                              :  3789 3794 3794 3794 3793 3794 3797 3798 3798 3797 3798 3797 3796 3796 3795 3796 3796 3796 3797 3795 3796 3798 3796 3796 3801 3802 3802 3798
  - Lowest Cell Voltage       :  3789 mV ( Cell 1 )
  - Highest Cell Voltage      :  3802 mV ( Cell 26 )
  - Pack Balance              :  13 mV
  - Lowest Cell mV            :  3789 mV
  - Age of Bank Voltage Data  :  83 ms

  - Isolation Resistance      :  32767 KOhms (0x7FFF)
  - Least Isolated Cell       :  100

                              :      0     1     2     3     4     5     6     7
  - Pack Temps                :  -100C -100C -100C -100C -100C -100C -100C -100C
  - Lowest Present Pack Temp  :  0 C
  - Max Pack Temp This Ride   :  -127 C
  - Min Pack Temp This Ride   :  127 C
  - Age of BMS Temp Data      :  193 ms

  - Min Discharge Temp        :  -30 C
  - Max Charge Temp           :  50 C
  - Min Charge Temp           :  0 C
  - Max Charge C-Rate         :  1.0
  - Min Discharge C-Rate      : 10.0
  - Discharge Scale Value     :   255/255

  - Num Charge Cycles         :  250

  - BMS Total Bike Run Time   :  00:01:45
  - BMS Clock                 :  03/13/2022 13:39:06 ( 1647203946, 0x622E566A )
  - Age of BMS Time Data      :  309 ms

  - Age of BMS Status Data    :  321 ms
  - Discrete Throttle En      :  Disabled

  CAN Status
  - Charger Attached          :   No
  - Batt Unbalanced           :   No
  - Batt Low                  :   No
  - Batt Full                 :   No
  - Batt Critically Low       :   No
  - Batt Temp High            :   No
  - Batt Temp Critically High :   No
  - Batt Temp Low             :   No
  - Contactor Closed          :   No
  - Isolation Fault           :   No

  CAN Commands
  - Close Contactor           :   No
  - Connect Module            :   No
  - Key On                    :  Yes
  - Charger Connected         :   No
  - Time Since Cmds Last Sent :  503 ms

[HVMoto]

and here's a view at my error log.

*****************************************************************
*  Error Log
*****************************************************************
0x00000400-000005FF, Num: 14, WP: 0x0000053E, RP: 0x00000560
*****************************************************************
Printing 14 of 14 log entries..

 Entry    Time of Log            Event                      Conditions
+--------+----------------------+--------------------------+----------------------------------
 00001     03/08/2022 13:51:53   SEVCON CAN EMCY Frame      Error Code: 0x5000, Error Reg: 0x40, Sevcon Error Code: 0x5101, Data: 06 03 02, Line Contactor o/c
 00002     03/08/2022 13:54:07   SEVCON CAN EMCY Frame      Error Code: 0x8200, Error Reg: 0x10, Sevcon Error Code: 0x5319, Data: 00 23 21, Mtr Slv in Wrong State
 00003     03/08/2022 13:54:12   Unexpected contactor close. Batt: 45875 mV, Cap: 70375 mV
 00004     03/08/2022 14:06:33   Unexpected contactor close. Batt: 82812 mV, Cap: 95812 mV
 00005     03/08/2022 15:39:09   SEVCON CAN EMCY Frame      Error Code: 0x8200, Error Reg: 0x10, Sevcon Error Code: 0x5319, Data: 00 23 21, Mtr Slv in Wrong State
 00006     03/08/2022 19:08:22   SEVCON CAN EMCY Frame      Error Code: 0x5000, Error Reg: 0x40, Sevcon Error Code: 0x5101, Data: 06 03 02, Line Contactor o/c
 00007     03/09/2022 12:23:02   SEVCON CAN EMCY Frame      Error Code: 0x8200, Error Reg: 0x10, Sevcon Error Code: 0x5319, Data: 00 23 21, Mtr Slv in Wrong State
 00008     03/09/2022 14:40:51   Unexpected contactor close. Batt: 81375 mV, Cap: 95937 mV
 00009     03/10/2022 06:35:04   SEVCON CAN EMCY Frame      Error Code: 0x5000, Error Reg: 0x40, Sevcon Error Code: 0x5101, Data: 06 03 02, Line Contactor o/c
 00010     03/10/2022 08:07:28   Unexpected contactor close. Batt: 80000 mV, Cap: 94875 mV
 00011     03/10/2022 08:35:52   Unexpected contactor close. Batt: 83875 mV, Cap: 96062 mV
 00012     03/10/2022 10:15:19   SEVCON CAN EMCY Frame      Error Code: 0x5000, Error Reg: 0x40, Sevcon Error Code: 0x5101, Data: 06 03 02, Line Contactor o/c
 00013     03/10/2022 10:19:49   SEVCON CAN EMCY Frame      Error Code: 0x5000, Error Reg: 0x40, Sevcon Error Code: 0x5101, Data: 06 03 02, Line Contactor o/c
 00014     03/13/2022 13:35:21   SEVCON CAN EMCY Frame      Error Code: 0x5000, Error Reg: 0x40, Sevcon Error Code: 0x5101, Data: 06 03 02, Line Contactor o/c

ZERO MBB> DEBUG:        838189  ..\src\Application\zero_mbb_bms_interface.c     : line  2667 - Module 0 CAN Link Down
DEBUG:        838322  ..\src\Application\zero_mbb_bms_interface.c     : line  2655 - Module 0 CAN Link Up
DEBUG:        839323  ..\src\Application\zero_mbb_bms_interface.c     : line  2667 - Module 0 CAN Link Down

I searched through the forum but have not seen any previous posts showing any of these errors.

[Auriga]

Judging by Unexpected Contactor Close, the bike may be thinking that the contactor is welded. If you can post a section of your full logs, observing the startup process on key on is usually helpful. I believe that is the eventlogdump command.

[HVMoto]

Ok, I'm attaching the event log for past few days, here's a snippet.


 Entry    Time of Log            Event                      Conditions
+--------+----------------------+--------------------------+----------------------------------
 00001                       2   DEBUG: Event Log reformatted due to bad read pointer.
 00002                       2   DEBUG: Log data at offset 0x0:
 00003                       2     A2 A2 A2 A2 29 DC 01 00 0D DC 01 00 79 18 00 00
 00004                       2     62 6C 69 6E 67 20 43 68 61 72 67 65 72 20 32 00
 00005                       2     B2 24 FD 8C 14 7B 60 45 6E 74 65 72 69 6E 67 20
 00006                       2     43 68 61 72 67 65 20 53 74 61 6E 64 62 79 20 4D
 00007                       2   WARNING: A non-critical element failed to initialize properly
 00008                       2   DEBUG: Reset: Power-On, External
 00009                       2   Power On                   Key Switch
 00010                       2   Key On
 00011                       2   Module 00 Disconnecting HP  modvolt:   0.000V
 00012                       2   Module 01 Disconnecting HP  modvolt:   0.000V
 00013                       2   CAN0 ACK error. count=1
 00014                       3   DEBUG: Module scheme changed from None mode to Running mode
 00015                       3   Module 00 CAN Link Up
 00016                       3   Module 00 Registered       modvolt: 107.515V
 00017     03/07/2022 14:51:45   BMS 0 Internal Disable Received
 00018     03/07/2022 14:51:45   Sevcon Turned On
 00019     03/07/2022 14:51:47   Sevcon CAN Link Up
 00020     03/07/2022 14:51:47   DEBUG: Sevcon Contactor Drive ON.
 00021     03/07/2022 14:51:54   Riding                     PackTemp: h-100C, l-100C, PackSOC:  0%, Vpack:107.506V, MotAmps:   0, BattAmps:   0, Mods: 00, MotTemp:  22C, CtrlTemp:  16C, MotRPM:   0

[staples]

One thing that stands out to my non-professional eyes is the variable output of the battery voltage.

106.295V from `show bms`
107.515V from start up
And all of these at the `Unexpected contactor close.` messages:
45875 mV
82812 mV
81375 mV
80000 mV
83875 mV