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[Richard230]

According to this article in my newspaper today, it is looking like the Hydrogen Highway in California is developing some potholes and no one is fixing them. Why am I not surprised?    Sorry about my circling of some bullet points that I thought were worth noting.

[Richard230]

Here is page 2.

[Richard230]

This is an interesting discussion regarding H-2 powered buses and their cost of operation:

[Richard230]

H2 vs. electric power is back in the news again: https://electrek.co/2022/02/15/study-hydrogen-fuel-cells-cannot-catch-up-battery-electric-vehicles/

[Richard230]

It is nice to see the forum up and running again.


The hydrogen highway is back in the news again: An long article written by Toss Woody, published by Bloomberg, titled "Navigating California's hydrogen highway with $200 and few stations" was in my newspaper recently.  The former long-time chief climate regulator used to drive a Toyota Mirai, but now drives a BEV Ford Mustang Mach E, which gets the same 300 mile range as her Mirai used to.

The article goes on to say: "Despite billions of dollars of investment, fuel cell cars in the U.S. are disappearing in the rearview mirror, overtaken by battery-electric models and stalled by hydrogen shortages and soaring fuel prices. Last year, drivers bought just 3,143 hydrogen cars in California - the only state that sells them - compared with 380,000 EVs."

It then goes on to say how last year Shell declined a $41 million state grant to build 50 stations in the state and that California scaled back its 200 station target to 130 stations by 2027. In February, Shell shuttered six of its seven retail hydrogen stations in the state.

A total of 66 H2 stations in California remain, but 12 have been offline for more than 30 days and others sporadically shut down due to supply shortages or equipment problems. Whereas there are currently 105,000 EV charging stations in the state (the article didn't mention how many of those are working).

Complaints about fuel prices are common. Filling up an H2 powered car can cost about $200 - the equivalent of paying $14.60 a gallon of gas.

So nothing new. Apparently the best use for hydrogen vehicles continues to be to power long-haul semi-tractor trucks.
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[Specter]

H2 is expensive period.  It's stupid flammable, needs special seals and stuff because the molecule is so small it leaks very easily, and as little as a 10 percent concentration is enough to make it go boom.

Electricity is generally used to make it via Hydrolysis, then it has to be stored in heavy expensive tanks to be transported then pumped into other storage areas, it's costly to move about, you have to pay those costs too, NOT just for the fuel.

Cheaper to just use the electricity, which is much more plentiful.

Hydrogen is used in the Power industry extensively, it is what cools the generators.  Depending on the age of the plant, and how well it has been kept up, they can go through a lot of it and need constant topping off,  typically once every week or so.  The companies who sell it, and ship would much rather provide for a customer who , needs 3trucks to be delivered A,B,C, and D  once every 7 days, over someone who may need just a tank or two every so often, so gas stations who may fill up a few cars every few weeks, are very low on their priority list, AND that delivery fee is split across a much smaller volume of the gas delivered, which further jacks the selling price up to you.

BTW when hydrogen burns, it's the same blow torch affect you get with a Lithium battery, less the smoke, stink and toxicity. Still incinerating anything around it though

Aaron

[Stonewolf]

The main thing that annoys me about hydrogen is how it absolutely sucks the air out of any energy transition conversation when it comes to bikes. Motorcycle press are all the heck over hydrogen like it's the second coming and constantly putting BEVs down. MCN's reporting is particularly bad. It's almost as if that's the whole point of hydrogen.

The motorcycling world is not ready to face the ugly truth that this war is over and all their battles are pointless. Bikes will do what cars do and here in Europe at least electric has basicly won that fight.

[Specter]

Hydrogen on a bike, ahh.  The container to hold it would have to be steel and THICK, to handle up to 3k lbs pressure.  that makes it very heavy.  They might be able to get away with spun composite to keep the weight down but in a wreck, you bust that open and well, it's a bad day all around, kaboom.  Burning it with just air is very inefficient energy wise, mixing it with oxygen now, a TON of power, but just stupid explosive, and then you'd need to carry the bottled O2 as well.  It's really not doable with our current tech, at least on any level of sustainability, cost wise.  Oh it CAN be done but very expensive, it'd make battery bikes look like a bargain basement deal there.

Aaron

[Stonewolf]

MCN ran an article a while back about how great Kawasaki's innovative solution to the volume problem was storing extra hydrogen in the panniers.

What else might I put in my panniers MCN? eh? What ELSE!!?

[Specter]

Well you could eat lunch at taco bell, run a tube up yer backside and run it off straight methane, instead of releasing it directly to the atmosphere.  That might help the fuel crisis and prevent global warming.  If it backfires though you could be in for a rough day.

But by storing hydrogen in your panniers, it would make the bike lighter too, so it'd get better mileage right?

Aaron

[Richard230]

You can forget hydrogen. Now we have perpetual motion power:  This "notice" was published in my newspaper last week. It was not labeled as an advertisement. Reading the notice I was amazed at the subject matter. Sorry about the black marker underlining and comment, but I just couldn't control myself while reading the notice. I never expected to see anything like this in a printed newspaper, much less located in the national news section of the paper.

[Specter]

This is a late April  Fools joke right?  Like the Maple Trees exploding in the winter thing right?

Oh I totally believe they would print this, people ARE this stupid now.  We don't teach education in skewl anymore, they teach indoctrination.

Now be a good little Marxist and throw all your money into this so you can get rich like Bill Gates!!!

Id LOVE to see the end results of their turbine after being heated up 300 C in 2 minutes a few times,  the thermal expansion on all those parts, yah that's gonna be a fun one

Aaron

[Richard230]

That "notice" was published in my newspaper on Sunday, Monday and Tuesday a week ago. 

[Richard230]

According to this article, the Hydrogen Highway is coming to America by 2030. But where will they fuel up and will those fueling stations be working?  https://www.ecoticias.com/en/ev-stellantis-hydrogen-fuel/6000/

[Specter]

Fun Fact:

Hydrogen is STILL a combustion type of energy.  All the benefits of electric, ie no oil filters, no air filters, no transmission etc etc, all go away with a H2  engine because it's STILL an engine, and still needs the same type of maintenance and stuff.  It cost more because it's hydrogen and needs special seals and this and that and everything else.

Hydrogen is fairly abundant, look in your phone book, I am sure there probably is somewhere around that will deliver hydrogen to you.  Power plants MUST have it, it's what cools the generators, and yes they DO leak and it needs to be refilled probably once a week or so, unless it's leaking bad, then once every few days.  During maintenance outages they get purged, refilled, so yes, there is a pretty big industry for it.  It is a bit expensive and you have to pay for the delivery too.

still I can see a 'gas station'  with some big ass tanks of hydrogen, or even leaving one of the transport trucks just parked there, hooked up type thing, suck it dry, drive a new one in, out with the old one.  The tanks on them typically can hold up to about 2k psi compressed H2.

Problem is, it's very leaky, and just SOOOOooo dangerous.  If there is a leak, even at a mere 10 PSI, the friction of the hydrogen sneaking out of that leak, is enough to set it on fire.  It burns with a super pale blue flame, you won't see it in the daytime, can barely see it at night if the lights are turned down, or out.  I can see people getting hurt, as I see morons filling their cars with gas smoking all the time.  YES, .. and NO I am not making that shit up.  Hydrogen doesn't just burn,  even when it's not mixed to the perfect percentage, it still wants to go bang, or even a strong woof... in other words, it want's to hurt you, and will.

Imagine having to pay someone now to pump the hydrogen into your car for you, imagine what the price of THAT is going to be?

People see 'rebate',  'discount' and then the rest of the propoganda of 'green' and buy into it, having zero clue what it's going to cost them in the long run to keep and maintain the thing.

IF it takes off, it will be the same as we are finding ourselves now with our electric bikes and cars.... not enough places to charge up, only with hydrogen, unlike your electric car,  NO you can NOT just plug it in at home and charge it, or fill it.  No you can NOT just go out and get a can of hydrogen to pour into your gas tank either like you would with your lawn mower.

Aaron