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Author Topic: New bike, who dis?  (Read 2614 times)

flynnstig82r

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New bike, who dis?
« on: December 03, 2021, 12:49:20 AM »

Yesterday I signed the title for my new (to me) SS9-. My 2017 Zero SR has been a great bike and fulfilled my years-long dream of riding electric, but after a little less than a year of owning it, I found myself frustrated with the combination of limited range and slow charging. There wasn’t much I could do about the range, but the charging could be remedied with external charging units. However, buying a second ElCon 3.3 kW charger and some side cases and racks to better carry them was going to be an expensive proposition, and I would never get that money back in the resale value. A well-priced Energica SS9- came onto the market with low-miles, and I realized that by just stretching the budget a little more, I could have DCFC without any of the extra chargers, cables, and hassle, along with even more power and torque and a much better build quality.

I had previously considered these bikes to be out of my price range, and I was also turned off by the need for oil changes and chain maintenance compared to the Zero, and the fact that they make more noise. As I read more about the Zero’s and talked to more owners, however, it became clear that Zero’s may have less regular maintenance than Energicas, but they’re also a lot less reliable and with much worse customer support. I haven’t experienced as many problems as some of the Zero owners on this forum have, but I’ve had issues with charging that cuts out, refuses to start, or is slower than it should be.

So far the Energica has been a dream. I laughed like a hyena the first time I cracked open the throttle in sport mode, and the handling is much more stable and confident (although it’s not as flickable and the tip-in takes some getting used to). I love that I can control the charging rate and limit the SOC, and the included J-1772 to 3-prong adapter is of high quality (although I did have a charging fault last night, which hopefully is a rare occurance). I’m very happy to have cruise control again, and sorely missed it on the Zero (my Atlas throttle lock helped but was no replacement for genuine CC). Traction control with adjustable levels makes me feel a lot more confident even though I never truly needed it on the Zero. I love the strong regen at the medium setting and the fact that it activates the brake light. I also love that it has dual-disc brakes up front, as inadequate stopping power from the single-disc on the Zero was my biggest concern about riding at highway speeds. The slow speed reverse and forward is a godsend, and makes the heavy weight of the bike almost irrelevant.

I’m planning to transfer some of the farkles over from the Zero and then sell it, so anyone who’s in the market for a high-mileage (48k) but well-maintained 2017 SR should consider it. I’m hoping to bring the CalSci windscreen over to the Energicas mounts, which would keep the good part of that product (the windscreen itself) while ditching the rest. Failing that, I’ve seen that a couple of people have had success with the Puig up-and-down adjustable screen. I’m planning to at least try bringing the bar-end mirrors over, although I don’t hate the stock mirrors on the SS9 nearly as much as the ones on the SR. I might also get some bar risers and try to lower the footpegs for a more comfortable ride. It’s already a lot more comfy than the SR, but I feel like it begs for just a little bit extra. I’m also planning to have some top and side case rails made for it.

Negatives compared to the Zero are that it’s significantly less efficient with the short stock windscreen at ~180-190 Wh / mi at 70 MPH compared to ~130 on the SR at that speed. We’ll see how much that comes down when I get a bigger windscreen and a top case installed. It’s also definitely a heavy beast, which matters the most in tip-in and slow-speed handling. It takes some effort to get it to start leaning and once it does it falls into the turn rather abruptly. With the Zero I never worried that I might drop it, but this one has me acting a lot more carefully. I also had a hard time finding a suitable charger last night. The first one was at an AM/PM gas station and only charged at 8 kW, so I abandoned the charge and went to the next closest, which was an Electrify America charger that I couldn’t get to start charging. It wanted me to plug in first but the bike had already rejected the handshake by the time I could initialize payment, no matter how fast I swiped the card. I had to give up and find an EVGo charger that worked like a charm with a credit card swipe, and topped me up to 80% in only 12 minutes. The attempts to figure out what was wrong and get charging took about an hour, though, so I’m hoping I can learn the quirks of DC fast charging and get through the teething period quickly. I also didn’t care for the limp mode that the bike automatically went into when I had 9 mi of estimated range and 17% SOC. It started limiting me to 59 MPH on the highway, which I did not appreciate and felt was dangerous. I hope there’s a way to override that, as I would prefer to make my own decisions about how far to push my luck with range and speed.

All in all, I’m in love with the bike and look forward to taking it on trips that never would have been feasible with the Zero. Maybe someday I’ll trade for a newer one with the bigger battery and new motor, but so far I don’t feel like I’m missing out.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2021, 11:43:06 PM by flynnstig82r »
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2007 Yamaha FJR1300 AE

Past bikes:
2020 Energica SS9 13.4 kWh
2017 Zero SR 13.0 kWh
2011 Ducati Multistrada 1200 S Touring
2016 MV Agusta Turismo Veloce 800
2012 Yamaha FZ6R

NEW2elec

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Re: New bike, who dis?
« Reply #1 on: December 03, 2021, 02:48:45 AM »

Congrats.
Sounds like you're a real deal rider putting 48k on a 17 SR.  Enjoy your new ride.
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flynnstig82r

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Re: New bike, who dis?
« Reply #2 on: December 03, 2021, 03:25:42 AM »

Haha I wish I could take credit for most of those miles. The previous owner put on the first 44k, and then I added just 4k since this past February. That guy was a savage! The tires had no chicken strips at all.
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2007 Yamaha FJR1300 AE

Past bikes:
2020 Energica SS9 13.4 kWh
2017 Zero SR 13.0 kWh
2011 Ducati Multistrada 1200 S Touring
2016 MV Agusta Turismo Veloce 800
2012 Yamaha FZ6R

NEW2elec

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Re: New bike, who dis?
« Reply #3 on: December 03, 2021, 04:33:53 AM »

Ok you lose a few badass points but you gain a gold star for honesty.

Still enjoy your new bike.    ;)
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Richard230

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Re: New bike, who dis?
« Reply #4 on: December 03, 2021, 04:42:54 AM »

Your  tip-in issue might be calmed a bit with different tires that have a more rounded profile. Some tire profiles do quicken up the steering more than others if their design is more triangular and less rounded.  ???
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Richard's motorcycle collection:  2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2020 KTM 390 Duke, 2002 Yamaha FZ1 (FZS1000N) and a 1978 Honda Kick 'N Go Senior.

flynnstig82r

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Re: New bike, who dis?
« Reply #5 on: December 03, 2021, 08:17:14 AM »

Your  tip-in issue might be calmed a bit with different tires that have a more rounded profile. Some tire profiles do quicken up the steering more than others if their design is more triangular and less rounded.  ???
Interesting, I'll experiment with that next time I'm due for tires!
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2007 Yamaha FJR1300 AE

Past bikes:
2020 Energica SS9 13.4 kWh
2017 Zero SR 13.0 kWh
2011 Ducati Multistrada 1200 S Touring
2016 MV Agusta Turismo Veloce 800
2012 Yamaha FZ6R

most

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Re: New bike, who dis?
« Reply #6 on: December 03, 2021, 10:57:54 AM »

Until tires are due you can add 10% above the recommended pressure. You will notice the difference immediately!
Here in Germany, the SS9‘s come with stock Diabolo Rosso 3 tires. I also complained about that tip-in on lower speeds (below circa 60km/h or 38mph) which got noticeable worse after the first 1000km / 600miles. I changed to Metzeler Roadtech 01SE and that tendency reduced a lot but did not disappear completely.
I am aware that the tire market differs between the continents, however maybe the attached table might provide some guidance. The rating for each tire was set up by a well known online dealer. It might be questionable but at least it provides a good comparison of the tested tires between themselves as they have all been done by the same team.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2021, 12:42:39 PM by most »
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flynnstig82r

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Re: New bike, who dis?
« Reply #7 on: December 05, 2021, 10:53:01 PM »

I’ll try that, thanks! Higher tire pressure should help with efficiency as well.
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2007 Yamaha FJR1300 AE

Past bikes:
2020 Energica SS9 13.4 kWh
2017 Zero SR 13.0 kWh
2011 Ducati Multistrada 1200 S Touring
2016 MV Agusta Turismo Veloce 800
2012 Yamaha FZ6R

flynnstig82r

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Re: New bike, who dis?
« Reply #8 on: December 05, 2021, 11:11:31 PM »

I figured out that the limp mode that I experienced at 17% SOC was caused by the cells being way out of balance. I don’t think it’s been charged up to full in its 620 mi lifetime. It’s currently been plugged in and cell balancing at 98% for hours, and might take hours more. At Scoot, I’ve seen cell balancing that takes days in the most extreme cases of batteries that hadn’t been balanced for many thousands of miles.

I also did my first DC fast charge earlier this week, which turned out to be a bit of a learning experience. I first stopped at a 24 kW charger located at a gas station, but it only gave me 8 kW, so I moved on. Then I tried some Electrify America chargers, but I couldn’t get the charge to start since it wanted me to plug the bike in first before making the payment, and no matter how fast I swiped my CC, the bike rejected the charge by the time the station tried to start. Then I went to a 50 kW EVGo charger, which worked perfectly and gave me the full 24 kW, which took me from 40% to 85% in just 12 minutes. Total game-changer compared to the Zero! It was pretty expensive, however, at a little over $4. When I plan trips I’ll try to look for stations that charge by the kWh and not by the minute.

I talked to a friend who works for Energica, and he gave me a recommendation for the custom top and side case rails: Todd at Sonic Moto in Oakland. He has apparently done top case mounts for several Energicas, and said he could definitely do the job in January (he’s all booked up for Dec). He said it would likely take 4-5 hours to fab, or about $500-600 for the labor portion. Just passing it along for anyone in or near the Bay Area who wants to add luggage.

My friend also mentioned that they have front axle sliders and frame sliders at the Energica shop in South San Francisco, but most people don’t opt for the frame sliders. Personally, I’d only do it if it doesn’t mess with the SS9’s clean look so I might skip those as well. He said for rear sliders, any spool sliders with an M6 bolt should fit.

I’ll continue to update as I add farkles and rack up miles. I want this SS9 to be just as much of a car-replacement as the Zero, but I’m a lot more concerned about maintaining the aesthetics than I was with the Zero. It’s so clean and beautiful and I don’t want to ruin its looks with ugly add-ons.
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2007 Yamaha FJR1300 AE

Past bikes:
2020 Energica SS9 13.4 kWh
2017 Zero SR 13.0 kWh
2011 Ducati Multistrada 1200 S Touring
2016 MV Agusta Turismo Veloce 800
2012 Yamaha FZ6R

MrMogensen

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Re: New bike, who dis?
« Reply #9 on: December 14, 2021, 05:03:17 PM »

Doesn't cell-balancing (or BMS calibration if it's the same), require for the battery to be nearly drained and then charged up to maximum several times... Preferably with a resting periods of at least af few hours between stopping with drained battery, charging to max and then next run?
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/// MrMogensen ///
Former Yamaha FZ6 (since 2008) now sold and find myself wanting a Ribelle.

MVetter

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Re: New bike, who dis?
« Reply #10 on: December 15, 2021, 09:14:21 AM »

Doesn't cell-balancing (or BMS calibration if it's the same), require for the battery to be nearly drained and then charged up to maximum several times... Preferably with a resting periods of at least af few hours between stopping with drained battery, charging to max and then next run?

No. Cell balancing is something BMS does at the very top end of the pack. The highest cell reaches the voltage limit, and then slowly discharges until it's the same level as the next highest cell. The entire pack resumes charging until the highest cell hits the top end again, burns itself down, pack resumes charging, peak cell hits limit, discharges, pack resumes charging, blah blah blah. This can take hours but the end goal is to try and get all the cells to the top end cutoff and are therefore 'balanced'.
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MrMogensen

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Re: New bike, who dis?
« Reply #11 on: December 18, 2021, 07:46:17 PM »

Doesn't cell-balancing (or BMS calibration if it's the same), require for the battery to be nearly drained and then charged up to maximum several times... Preferably with a resting periods of at least af few hours between stopping with drained battery, charging to max and then next run?

No. Cell balancing is something BMS does at the very top end of the pack. The highest cell reaches the voltage limit, and then slowly discharges until it's the same level as the next highest cell. The entire pack resumes charging until the highest cell hits the top end again, burns itself down, pack resumes charging, peak cell hits limit, discharges, pack resumes charging, blah blah blah. This can take hours but the end goal is to try and get all the cells to the top end cutoff and are therefore 'balanced'.

So in other words charge to 100% and let the bike/car sit there as long as possible with cable in?

Lot's of the Tesla people seem to use the method I described when BMS is out of sync (when battery max % is showing way less than it should). Is this two seperate issues?  :o
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/// MrMogensen ///
Former Yamaha FZ6 (since 2008) now sold and find myself wanting a Ribelle.

MVetter

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Re: New bike, who dis?
« Reply #12 on: December 19, 2021, 12:14:43 AM »

So in other words charge to 100% and let the bike/car sit there as long as possible with cable in?


As long as it says "balancing". If it turns off it's done.
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MrMogensen

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Re: New bike, who dis?
« Reply #13 on: December 19, 2021, 01:27:29 AM »

If it says balancing?

Sorry if I am dumb about this...

Isn't this just using a regular charger? Will it be reading "balancing" in the display of the Energica?
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/// MrMogensen ///
Former Yamaha FZ6 (since 2008) now sold and find myself wanting a Ribelle.

MVetter

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Re: New bike, who dis?
« Reply #14 on: December 19, 2021, 02:20:35 AM »

Yeah, the display will show the word "balancing".
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