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[gt13013]

When I plug my bike (FXS 2016) for charging directly to the wall plug, I get a clean start (double click when the 2 contactors close) and a clean shutdown when I unplug the bike (2 almost simultaneous clicks when the 2 contactors open).
But If I use a smart plug to control the switching ON and OFF of the charge, I get strange buzzing noises coming from the bike, particularly when switching OFF.
I made a video:
The smart plug is a Meros MSS310 Smart Wi-Fi Plug with Energy Monitor.

I have 3 questions:
1) what is the origin of this buzzing noise?
2) can it damage the bike?
3) do you have references of other smart plugs that work fine with our Zero's? I would like one working in 220 V, that can switch up to 16 Amps, and preferably compatible with Amazon Alexa.

[ESokoloff]

I noticed that when you plugged in the charge cord on the wifi plug that you got one short round of buzzing & none when the switch was turned on.
This leads me to believe that this wifi plug doesn’t interrupt the hot leg & for reasons I don’t understand but the motorcycle doesn’t like it.
If I had to take a guess, I would say the it’s one or both of the contactor’s machine-gunning (rapidly pulling in/out).
If it is contactor(s), it would be very bad if doing so under load (passing high amounts of current) but It’s not under load during plug-in or turning off so the contacts will not be subjected to load cycling. 

Send it off to Big Clive for his review & perhaps substitute suggestions.

http://www.bigclive.com/

In the meantime consider a electro mechanical timer switch or spring wound timer to limit when & how much charge occurs.

 

[Curt]

According to your web link, that device doesn't pass more than 800W continuous. The FXS charges at 650W, but it's still a little close for comfort. I had my 2016 no problem on a 1800W smart switch (TP-Link HS105, USD 18). It should be easy to get a TP-Link HS100 in Europe good for 240V 3680W.

[gt13013]

@ESokoloff : thanks for your detailed investigation.
I previously used this mechanical timer, but I found that it was not cutting the power cleanly (once I was close to the bike at that moment, I heard the bike doing strange noises. I do not remember exactly, but it was probably the same buzzing noise as with the smart plug). And in last July, the controller of my bike died after a charge stopped by this mechanical timer. I suspected the mechanical timer to be at the origin of this failure. That is why I decided to stop using it.

I do not understand why cutting the neutral instead of cutting the hot leg or cutting both would disturb the Zero. But it seems that it is the reason. Indeed, my smart plug has two ground holes (attached picture) and can be plugged to the main plug in 2 different manners that exchange hot leg and neutral. I tried to plug it the other way, and bingo, no buzzing noise ! If this is confirmed to solve the problem, it would mean that
1) my smart plug is cutting only one of the 2 legs
2) my Zero does not like a cutting sequence where only one leg is cut (probably if only the neutral is cut)
3) a good timer for the Zero should cut the 2 legs

@Curt : where did you see that the plug does not pass more than 800W? It is rated for 16A, i.e. around 3500W

[ESokoloff]

It’s starting to sound like you have an electrical distribution fault namely the hot & neutral swapped somewhere.
Break out the volt meter & confirm at the wall socket.

The continuity is broken on the Hot not Neutral leg.
Initially I assumed that the made in China device was the issue but this is the second device with similar issues. 

The image of plug shows the position of the Hot, Neutral, & Ground (I assume the Neutral is the pin on the right & the Ground is the hole on the top).

With a volt meter @ the wall socket, ground one probe (touch to the Ground pin) & with the other probe insert into the Hot & Neutral holes to determine wiring is correct.

It could be that the fault is in the power strip so check that first.

[Curt]

@Curt : where did you see that the plug does not pass more than 800W? It is rated for 16A, i.e. around 3500W

I guess I was thrown off by a poorly-worded FAQ question on the link :

What devices can I control with Meross Smart Plug?
You can control any small appliances according to the specifications of the Meross Smart Plug. The following is the maximum power of some typical devices supported by Meross Smart Plug.

Coffee pot: 800W
Lamp: 235.2W
LCD: 270W
Humidifier: 260W
Toaster: 850W
Tower fan: 50W

I don't know where anyone even gets a coffee pot or toaster that's only 800W, or why they would call to attention such small loads when trying to advertise a high-amperage device. ?

[gt13013]

I have a socket tester and indeed, Line and Neutral are inverted on this socket:

And on the wall socket also (the problem is not due to the  multiple extension cord).

In my opinion, the fact that my Zero is so sensitive to an exchange between Line and Neutral is a design error.
I hope that Zero has corrected it in earlier versions of their motorcycles.

By the way, I have modified the title of the topic from
"Zero FXS buzzing when charging with smart plug" to
"Zero FXS buzzing when charging with inverted Line and Neutral".

[gt13013]

I have checked that my smart plug only cuts one of the two legs.

When I plug the smart plug into a correctly wired wall plug, and in the normal way (Earth pins aligned), the smart plug opens and closes the Line and keeps the Neutral closed. That seems OK for my Zero.

When I plug the smart plug into an inverted wired wall plug, and in the normal way (Earth pins aligned), the smart plug opens and closes the Neutral and keeps the Line closed. That makes the Zero buzz.

Finally, this smart plug can be plugged into an inverted wired wall plug, and in the inverted way (Earth pins in opposite directions), and in this way the smart plug opens and closes the Line and keeps the Neutral closed. That seems OK for my Zero.

Of course, if you don't use a timer and pull the cable out of the socket, you open both legs at the same time and there is no problem. Same if you find a timer that closes and opens both legs!

[ESokoloff]

Ok, so I’m learning about power distribution in other parts of the world.

Schuko sockets are unpolarised, there is no way of differentiating between the two live contacts (line which is approximately 230 V to earth and neutral which is approximately 0 V to earth) unless the voltage to earth is measured prior to use.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schuko

I think you need to be more upset with the people (politicians) that have decided this (using a non polarized system) is ok & not vent your frustration off on Zero. 

The way I see it, they (Zero) did you a favor by calling this potentially deadly situation to your attention. 

[gt13013]

I do not see any deadly situation.
What could probably die, this is the motorcycle. I suspect that this problem has killed the controller of my bike, and I had to pay about $2500 to repair it, and the bike was out of service for about 1 month.

Zero should be aware of the electrical differences in the different regions of the world and make their motorcycles in such a way that they could be used without problem in these different countries.
A timer is a common device used to control the charge. If their bikes could be damaged by the use of a timer that only cuts one leg, it should be either corrected, or stated as a big warning in the documentation.

[talon]

download your logs from the bike and post them here. see if the bike reports anything strange

[Curt]

This says to me that there's something wrong with the Zero's ground isolation. The Zero should not be able to discriminate which line is neutral and which is hot without referencing to ground, but any reference to ground constitutes current leakage.

It would be interesting to know if it's a problem with just your bike or if it's a design problem. The bike would certainly trip a GFCI in its current condition.

[gt13013]

I am busy today. But I will post the logs and test a DFCI as soon as possible (I have a 10 mA one).
Thanks.
Gerard

[gt13013]

I have extracted the logs. You can find them here:
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/zwf0rr7lffqvw1x/AABPbJzAC-8Eu-ofFeqoJLP8a?dl=0

I also give Word files decoded either with the joined file zero-log-parser.html , or with the online parser from
http://home.hasslers.net/zerologparser/log_parser.php

There are many remarks.

The BMS1 logs are always corrupted on my bike. I keep logs from all the life of my bike and it is like that since a long time.

The logs from zero-log-parser.html have correct local dates, while the logs from http://home.hasslers.net/zerologparser/log_parser.php have wrong local dates.

There are many errors in the logs, but I think that I have this kind of errors since the beginning (it is easy to check if necessary, since I have kept my old logs).


I have also charged the bike through 2 different DFCI (both with 10 mA differential sensitivity), and they do not detect anything wrong...