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[Richard230]

The latest Indian-manufactured Royal Enfield motorcycle models have a device on their display called a "Tripper". It is a small round illuminated display that links to your cell phone via Bluetooth. It connects to Google Maps and displays both the time and a directional arrow and distance to your next turn to get to a destination that you have entered into your phone. This appears to be a standard feature of their motorcycles and they do not charge extra for this device. Check out their 350cc Meteor models for a better description, which appear to be selling well in the U.K and the U.S. this year. No Cyber III+ needed. 

[TheRan]

If you're interested in getting the something similar on your Zero there's the Beeline. Expensive for what it is but cheaper than the upgrade from Zero.

https://global.beeline.co/pages/beeline-moto

[GrantMeStrength]

I have the BeeLine. It's a hassle to set-up, recharge etc. I am very much looking forward to the dash update.

[talon]

This incentivizes the somewhat healthy hacker community around Zeros to produce custom firmwares and give these features for free. Warranty covered by the Magnusson Moss warranty act if it can be done well. I'd like to see them prove that reverse mode and turn by turn caused a premature failure of a battery or charger, and eventually that a user unlocking that extra 17% charging speed and whatever battery percentage caused any more damage than theirs could do UNDER THE SAME WARRANTY. This is a bad move by Zero. Just bake the cost into the bike or don't do it at all. App purchases are especially cringey.

I understand why they are doing this but there's only one way I see it:  Having the percentage of users that don't upgrade partially subsidize the hardware cost of possible warranty replacements of those that do is ludicrous.

[princec]

What we have found in the gaming world is this:
When you make a game, you often build in all the content in the base downloadable, then disable a bunch of it, and call it the "base game" and sell it for $15.
Then you release some DLC, and sell that for $5, and all it actually does is unlock the content that people already have.
HOWEVER... and this is the interesting bit really... it seems that DLC rarely sells to existing customers. Instead what happens is that new customers come along, evaluate the $15 and $20 options, and invariably determine that the $20 option is better value in their heads, as their brains are making a value decision based on "$15 for x" and "$20 for x AND y". As opposed to seeing a single product where the value comparison they have in their heads is "$0 - don't buy it at all" vs "$20 for a game".

I believe this is the exact psychology behind the concepts shown here by Zero (and indeed BMW, KTM, and to a lesser extent Triumph and Ducati). We even have anecdotal evidence backing this up - almost all BMWs, KTMs, etc are sold loaded with the entire gamut of toys, according to dealers - they almost never sell base models. Not only do people perceive the value of the fully loaded models to be intrinsically better than the base models, but they also know that the same is true of the second hand market as well, and it's much harder to shift base models than it is ones with all of the desirable farkles.

So well done to Zero for figuring this out.

Cas

[Richard230]

Very true, Cas.  You need to be a marketing consultant. 

[princec]

Disclaimer: I'd be rich if I knew what I was talking about...

Cas

[flynnstig82r]

I wonder what it would take to unlock the full 17.3 KwH nominal capacity of the 15.6+ battery in an S-platform bike. With a big windscreen on a '13-'21 SR and 110 Wh/mi, we'd be looking at 130+ miles of highway range.

I also wonder how many charging amps the 14.4+ and 15.6+ can tolerate before they hit 1C and cut out. 100 miles of riding followed by 40 mins of charging at cheap and easy-to-find J-stations would be a pretty compelling proposition. I don't see how any other e-bike could do better for longer trips, even the Energicas.

[MVetter]

I wonder what it would take to unlock the full 17.3 KwH nominal capacity of the 15.6+ battery in an S-platform bike. With a big windscreen on a '13-'21 SR and 110 Wh/mi, we'd be looking at 130+ miles of highway range.

I also wonder how many charging amps the 14.4+ and 15.6+ can tolerate before they hit 1C and cut out. 100 miles of riding followed by 40 mins of charging at cheap and easy-to-find J-stations would be a pretty compelling proposition. I don't see how any other e-bike could do better for longer trips, even the Energicas.

Zero's numbers currently indicate 113 miles of range on the unlocked 17.3kWh pack with an added 3.6 Power Tank at 70mph.

What highway speeds on an S are you getting 110 Wh/mi on? Your assertion of 'a big windscreen' leads me to believe you have a limited grasp of how this works.

[flynnstig82r]

I average about 110 on my ‘17 SR with the CalSci screen at 65-70 MPH. I also over-inflate the tires to 40 and 38 PSI and my throttle hand is pretty gentle. I don’t tuck unless I have range anxiety, though, and I don’t have wheel covers or other aero mods, so I consider 110 to be pretty easily achievable with a big screen on the front. Sometimes I get below 100 and sometimes it’s more like 130, but average is somewhere around 110.

Assuming a useable Kwh rating of ~15 from the Cypher-unlocked pack, that would predict about 135 miles at that efficiency, or about 120 realistic for people who don’t like to wring out every last joule and coast up to the charger.

I realize that getting the extra 10% out of these batteries on an S-platform bike is unlikely to happen anytime soon, but it’s interesting to think about the possibility for long distances on a lighter and more efficient bike than the FST models.

[talon]

I wonder what it would take to unlock the full 17.3 KwH nominal capacity of the 15.6+ battery in an S-platform bike. With a big windscreen on a '13-'21 SR and 110 Wh/mi, we'd be looking at 130+ miles of highway range.

I also wonder how many charging amps the 14.4+ and 15.6+ can tolerate before they hit 1C and cut out. 100 miles of riding followed by 40 mins of charging at cheap and easy-to-find J-stations would be a pretty compelling proposition. I don't see how any other e-bike could do better for longer trips, even the Energicas.

1C is half defined in time so it is always an hour* at that rate (for a full charge). Unless you mean what the stations would need to put out to achieve that rate...

in which case my old ZF13.0 needs 104Amps (12.1kW max not accounting the extra needed for charger losses, 10.6kW average over entire charge) which already maxes out most dual-J setups. So 14.4+ and 15.6+ would only be worse (higher power requirements) than what a high percentage of even dual-J1772 AC stations can do.

*except that CC/CV charging curves require us to slow down on the tail end of the charge to limit the voltage/current.

[MVetter]

I average about 110 on my ‘17 SR with the CalSci screen at 65-70 MPH.

I do not believe you.

[Shadow]

70mi range at 70mph for the ZF13.0 was a pretty reliable figure on the DSR. Longest I ever got was 40mph for 169mi. Slow down to 52mph and that ZF13.0 would get 100mi range on level ground.

What battery is that on the 2017 SR?

[Richard230]

I would never be able to get over 90 miles of range out of my 2018S with Power Tank at a speed of 65 mph on level ground in calm wind. I have the Zero "touring" windshield installed on my bike, which I would rate as a medium-size shield.  I have installed large windshields on a couple of my BMW motorcycles in the past and in every case they decreased the gas mileage. There seems to be a point where increasing the size of windshields creates more aerodynamic drag than they reduce - which I think makes sense.  And don't forget that if you are riding against a wind (which seems to happen more often that having a tail wind    ) that will really affect your motorcycle's efficiency, especially as your speed increases.

BTW, I have heard that CalSci no longer is making motorcycle windshields. I believe the company went out of business.    Too bad. They had a good reputation for supplying well designed and manufactured motorcycle windshields and having good customer service.

[flynnstig82r]

1C is half defined in time so it is always an hour* at that rate (for a full charge). Unless you mean what the stations would need to put out to achieve that rate...

in which case my old ZF13.0 needs 104Amps (12.1kW max not accounting the extra needed for charger losses, 10.6kW average over entire charge) which already maxes out most dual-J setups. So 14.4+ and 15.6+ would only be worse (higher power requirements) than what a high percentage of even dual-J1772 AC stations can do.

*except that CC/CV charging curves require us to slow down on the tail end of the charge to limit the voltage/current.

What I meant was, does the 14.4+ have a 10% higher charging amp limit than the old 14.4, or is the 1C calculation based on the same 12.6 kWh? And does buying the Cypher upgrade increase that limit or is it always available? I agree that it would be difficult to take advantage of charging speeds greater than 13.2 kW in the US, but it would be nice to know if a person could potentially charge at up to 17.3 kW using 3 J-plugs, 2 Tesla DC’s, or 2 14-50R’s.