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[Specter]

It's funny, before the moonbats were screeching about evil coal, and natural gas was the safe clean thing.
now NG is the evil and solar is the safe clean thing.
once they get that installed everywhere and power is arbitrary at best, I wonder what is going to replace the panels?
wind is shredding eagles and killing whales so, guess it's back to living in caves, waiting for lightning strikes to create fire to keep you warm.

Any electric you do manage to find will be used to run the Co2 sequestration stations to keep you happy and cooler.

aaron

[Richard230]

According to this article that was published in my newspaper today the home solar panel industry pretty much collapsed last year and many companies have had to lay off 50-75% of their employees to stay in business. The article points fingers at Northern California's PG&E (the largest utility company in the U.S.), the state's PUC, legislators and electrical unions as the culprits that all contributed to the industry's problems.

[Specter]

Blame California?  well YOU were stupid enough to put a business there, you KNEW how hostile that state is to business'
Blame the Unions, that I can absolutely see,  another crowd who wants maximum pay to do minimum work all day, the US can't compete with china or any overseas panel manu's because of that, plain and simple.
on that though, there are plenty of companies selling panels.  some are as low as like 28 cents a watt now and many in the 30's.

Interestingly the prices are fluctuating all over the place,  they were pushing in the 50's and 60's then a new batch of lower cost panels suddenly came up.  A few of them US companies too.

Now, whether they will stick around or was this a smash and grab at the biden ghetto buxx for solar stuff like we seen with Solynndra remains to be seen.

i just ordered a 12 pack of panels for my bike trailer and back yard booster, and also the lith storage batteries are VERY cheap now  3.6 kw I got for 1k each,  high current too, they can push 200 amps.  This specific battery has been around for oh i want to say 4 or 5 years now and is proving itself to be very reliable.

altenergystore.com

Aaron

[Richard230]

Here is a long opinion piece regarding the solar panel industry in California which was in my newspaper today that you might find interesting if you have the time to read it.

[Specter]

I will read it richard, but in short, the whole industry is pretty corrupt and you better watch out.
Solyndra ring a bell?
There is fat cash just waiting to be gobbled up and they are all  lining up at the trough for their feed at the piggy stables.  Yes there are some reputable dealers and manu's out there but there are also so many scammers too.

The biggest scam is not having a self sustained grid, ie battery backup, even if it was just for 30 minutes.  Because every time the grid hiccups, it could be as simple as the 10 am squirrel hitting the 68k transmission line, and poof ALL those panels are off line and shut down for 5 minutes before they revalidate and come back up.  That huge swing in power gen is a nightmare for a dispatcher, and can actually cause other stuff to trip off line, especially when it all of the sudden all comes back on within a 3 or 4 second window as they all hit their 5 minute mark at the same time.

A battery could buffer this very easily, keep YOU safer, the grid safer, and you don't trip offline and lose generation while everything is trying to requalify to get back online.

Even a small supercap for say a 20 second ride thru a burp would make a world of difference and at todays prices, would be very cheap.  I totally get the reason for the disconnect, but they really need to rethink it and redesign it, now that we had a few decades to SEE what happens when things go bad.  Just my opinion.

Aaron

Edit:  I read it, let me edit.

Greed and Corruption with a big fat healthy dose of communism thrown in there.  Let the govt (meaning you) pay for it !!  Just tax the working class, they'll get over it!!!!

How about, instead, making it more affordable,  the problem, and it's been there for a good century now, not just solar but with everything is GREED.  They want the entire pie and don't want to share ANY of it with anyone else.  Also, if you can afford and want solar, cool, go for it, if you can't, then don't get it.  The govt should not be subsidizing ANY of this crap!!  That goes for everything,  sugar, gas, solar, anything that has govt subsidies.  if it's too expensive then either people learn to do without, or they learn to make it for less profit.

When are these Marxist assholes going to learn that no, taxing the companies does not work, they simply raise the price of their product and pass that right onto the very people you are pretending you are trying to help.

let's sue the cigarette companies,  YAY we won,  the next day the pack of cigs cost a dollar more.  WHO really won?  The lawyers won, the govt with a higher number to collect tax on, but the people.  they didn't win a damned thing.

IF done honestly, with the adults sitting at the table, actually caring about the 'better good' of everyone, solar could be very doable, and with a little compromise, a little sacrifice here and there, be good for most everyone.  However the adults are NOT at the table, the crooks are, and neither side is willing to listen to a thing the other has to say, because it might cost them money.  Lies spin round and round, because everyone is trying to protect their little grift pool and the people pay for it EVERY TIME.

Maybe we just need a huge EMP to nuke us back to the stone age.  Life was simpler, and people had to work together to survive.  What a novel concept.

[DonTom]

Here is a long opinion piece regarding the solar panel industry in California which was in my newspaper today that you might find interesting if you have the time to read it.

One problem is that if too many have solar, it will cause PG&E to jack up their rates just to stay in business.  So after they jack up their rates, more will go solar. As more go solar, PG&E must jack of their rates again and etc.


PG&E loves to convince people to use less electricity. But this world runs on BS.


But they do need to make a profit and they have a lot of expenses to deal with.


When we were MUCH younger, it was the telephone company that was the big rip-off. PG&E was then more reasonable.  That reversed over the years.


-Don-  Reno, NV

[Curt]

PG&E should have been deep into consumer solar panels, storage, EVSEs, generators, etc. by now.

Companies that re-invent themselves in the face of adversity are the ones who survive. Netflix going from mail order to streaming, Amazon going from books to everything, Apple opening physical stores, Microsoft embracing Linux and on-line subscription, Safeway re-doing all its stores, all car manufacturers making EVs, etc.

Companies that don't adapt and go with the flow are doomed --  Sears, Rite Aid, AT&T, etc.

[Richard230]

Well, PG&E did invest in storage batteries to partially pick up the slack when solar and wind generation is down. However, reading this article it looks like they are paying a private company to build and operate the battery storage system, which adds another layer of profit to the cost of electricity before it hits their rate payer's monthly bills.  I wonder why PG%E couldn't have built, operated and owned the battery plant itself?  My guess is that it makes more profit for them when they buy the stored power from a private company, instead of owning the plant themselves as they do with their hydro facilities.

https://electrek.co/2023/08/03/worlds-largest-battery-storage-system-just-got-even-larger/#:~:text=The%20Moss%20Landing%20Energy%20Storage,of%20a%20gas%2Dpowered%20plant

[Specter]

Richard,another part is it's easier to write that company off as an expense, rather than have to deal with the insurance and all that crap of an asset, and the upkeep employees etc etc.  Not to mention when the lawsuits start flowing in, they can rub their hands point that way and go, it's a private company, go sue them.

Aaron

[Richard230]

Richard,another part is it's easier to write that company off as an expense, rather than have to deal with the insurance and all that crap of an asset, and the upkeep employees etc etc.  Not to mention when the lawsuits start flowing in, they can rub their hands point that way and go, it's a private company, go sue them.

Aaron

That makes business sense. And PG$E is all about business and profits.  Anyone play Monopoly? One of the nice places to own on the board is the utility spot. 

[Richard230]

Here is another article that was in today's newspaper about CA's solar industry troubles that explains how the state regulators gave them and homeowners wanting to install solar panels the shaft. Page 1.

[Richard230]

Page 2.

[Specter]

If the wholesale market is so wonderful and abundant, then why are they having all these power crisis'  Brownouts, blackouts and grid emergencies?

What happens on a shitty day and they are paying 10,000 dollars a megawatt, yet have to sell it to YOU for 200 dollars a megawatt because that is your current going rate?  Yah, they don't even bring up that part when trying to justify fucking you on what they want to pay you for YOUR electricity.

I could see maybe paying 60 percent market price for it, that is fair, after all you still have to use their wires, transformers, etc to get it to the next user, however in reality the next user typically is your neighbor who is on the same transformer as you so a few hundred dollars of wire is all that is really used.

How about when 'bulk market' price is 9999 because there is NO electric available,  and emergency power prices are 12k per megawatt, because ther eis NO electric available, but wait,  they can get it from the consumer,  hey bud, sell down your battery 40 percent to us over these next few hours to get us thru the hump, and paying only retail for it instead of retail x 50.  All the MILLIONS of dollars they'd save in that scenario.  Oh no lets not talk about that.

Everyone wants to lie and play games because they can't share and work together, every greedy cunt want's it all for themselves, and THAT is what will ultimately destroy them.

Aaron

[Richard230]

The natives are restless:  https://patch.com/california/pacifica/s/iuxwy/op-ed-pg-e-profits-soar-as-ratepayers-struggle-with-sky-high-bills

Attached is a photo of the newspaper article that this op-ed is based upon.

[Fran K]

It sure is an op-ed.

I went to Yahoofinance
https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/PCG/key-statistics
Does not look like a dividend stock to me.
This latest episode does not seem to have bumped the share price

Last Split Factor 2   2:1
Last Split Date 3   Jul 18, 1983
Was this even the same company in 1983?

Maybe you California folks should do like Connecticut and make the transmission and distribution completely seperate from the supply.  Then let the government add all the redistribution of wealth stuff in line items.