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[Auriga]

I just wanted to let people know that I was told there are no planned SOC FW changes coming from Zero anytime in the next year.
I haven't been able to get a response from them as to what(if anything) they believe is wrong with v19, only that v19 is supposed to be better than previous firmwares.

Some people with major issues seem to have their problems fixed upgrading to v19. Some people seem to need an SOC algorithm reset. Some people end up with a new battery. If you have major SOC jumps or range issues, there's also the chance its not the FW and something is wrong with your battery. I've done all of these things for owners, and one of them usually fixes it.

As the riding season winds down for most people, something to think about 

[Crissa]

If it were anyone but you, I'd find that post dubious!

But... 'if you still see symptoms, it's probably something else now' is a good point.

-Crissa

[Auriga]

If it were anyone but you, I'd find that post dubious!

But... 'if you still see symptoms, it's probably something else now' is a good point.

-Crissa

I just want people to enjoy their bikes. I saw one guy post that he struggled to get 40mi on his SRF in one go. That sucks! If FW is the answer, we need more people to report it to get them to try to fix it. If it isn't(like they seem to think), then that means we can fix it.

Of the people I've seen, we've fixed it for them. It's not perfect, it jumps a bit, but it's much closer to the Gen II bikes.

[Crissa]

Me too!

This forum and the unofficial manual are why I wanted a Zero   I know sometimes it seems like Zero is kinda opaque (okay, they're totally opaque) but compared to other bikes that I could ride?

-Crissa

[NervEasy]

My 2020 SR/S is at the dealer a the moment getting a new battery...
The strange thing I have been observing is that the lowest cell voltage fluctuates heavily when charging (as in 2000-4000mv extremes). I have seen an 2019 SR/F that does not have this issue and his range is fine. And I have seen a second 2019 SR/F that also has this fluctuating issue and the recharging/range of that bike is also strange/bad. So I think it has something to do with this observation (which would indicate a bad battery or BMS?)

I hope the new battery will fix it as it has been a long road to get Zero to take action.

Also they have reset the SOC algo of my BMS before and this fixed the problem for a while (the bike had dramatically better range and charging behavior) but after +-2000km over 2 weeks the shit range and f°ed up charging behavior was back with a vengeance, so if that fixed the problem for you keep an eye out.

I hope to get to pick up my bike next weekend with a new pack and no issues...

[Richard230]

It is really strange that some people with the Gen 3 models are having problems with the SOC programming and their battery packs. My 2018 S with PT has a very accurate and stable SOC display and the battery pack seems to be just about perfect, with cell balance in the 2-3 mV range. So what changed with the new SR/S and SR/F models? Is it the new Cyber 3 programming or something to do with the manufacturing or assembly of the updated battery cells? Something seems to have changed during the past couple of years. If I was Zero I would try to figure out what that is and if those changes are causing the problems with some bikes. Maybe they should experiment with the older Gen 2 programming and see if that solves some of the issues with the Cyber 3 system?

[princec]

Maybe related but... after 5500 entirely trouble free miles my SR/F Premium (+charge tank) recently started charging at a considerably lower rate than it ever used to. As in, for the last 5400 miles when plugged in to 240VAC mains, it's drawn 21A and 2.1kW right up until about 95%. As of two days ago it's suddenly only drawing 15A and 1.6kW, which is considerably lengthening the predicted charge times. (Don't know if it's actual or just predicted, I've not sat around to watch it long enough). Could this be the dreaded v19 firmware finally making itself known or is my battery suddenly going squiffy?

Cas

[Auriga]

It is really strange that some people with the Gen 3 models are having problems with the SOC programming and their battery packs. My 2018 S with PT has a very accurate and stable SOC display and the battery pack seems to be just about perfect, with cell balance in the 2-3 mV range. So what changed with the new SR/S and SR/F models? Is it the new Cyber 3 programming or something to do with the manufacturing or assembly of the updated battery cells? Something seems to have changed during the past couple of years. If I was Zero I would try to figure out what that is and if those changes are causing the problems with some bikes. Maybe they should experiment with the older Gen 2 programming and see if that solves some of the issues with the Cyber 3 system?

I know that anything that causes battery pack replacements under warranty gets scrutinized, because they ask for them back. Whether they tell us what they found is a different story. I'd bet the FST batteries behave differently enough that they can't just reuse the old code, but being on the outside I can't say. Maybe they're already doing that and it doesn't work well.

Batteries are hard. I wouldn't be surprised if there is some slow onset defect in a batch of batteries that contributes to this. Chevy had to recall their entire fleet of Bolt batteries because LG screwed up making them, and they have a lot more money to put into quality control and inspections.

[Auriga]

Maybe related but... after 5500 entirely trouble free miles my SR/F Premium (+charge tank) recently started charging at a considerably lower rate than it ever used to. As in, for the last 5400 miles when plugged in to 240VAC mains, it's drawn 21A and 2.1kW right up until about 95%. As of two days ago it's suddenly only drawing 15A and 1.6kW, which is considerably lengthening the predicted charge times. (Don't know if it's actual or just predicted, I've not sat around to watch it long enough). Could this be the dreaded v19 firmware finally making itself known or is my battery suddenly going squiffy?

Cas

Tough to say, but if your range and soc are still good, I'd lean towards something with the charger. I'd want to see the logs to have a good sense though.

[princec]

It looked like the logs were going to take about 5 hours to download :| Is there a faster way to get at them than Bluetooth?

Cas

[Auriga]

It looked like the logs were going to take about 5 hours to download :| Is there a faster way to get at them than Bluetooth?

Cas

Not really. It sounds like the app isn't working. Dealers can pull logs via CAN, but I have no way to do that remotely

[NoMoreIdeas]

You probably already have the logs pulled, but you can pull them from the obd2 port via a usb - ttl adapter and a obd2 pigtail https://zeromanual.com/wiki/How_to_build_a_cable_to_access_the_MBB

[princec]

I haven't yet - it says it's expected to take about 5 hours and after watching it crawl to 6% over 15 minutes I suspect that may be right but it's chucking it down with rain here so I've not felt inclined to stand outside and wait
I happen to have a USB-to-TTL cable right here but no OBD2 plug... might order one from Amazon.

Regarding the charging suddenly being 1.6kw instead of 2.1... is this a typical failure mode for Zero chargers? The Premium's got two 3kw chargers on it and I'm expecting that with a 240v single phase supply only one of those is normally used so I bet it wears out way faster than the other one - but in what way do chargers "wear"?

Cas

[Auriga]

Most recent firmware has removed the ability to pull logs over serial for FST bikes. A few versions ago they removed the command to decode the logs, and it dumped hex. But now it's gone completely. So it's the app or CAN only.

[Crissa]

That's uhh... I guess they're lucky they don't have any customers in Massachusetts?

-Crissa