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[rypher]

I took my Zero FX into the SF zero dealership after experiencing some sudden and jerky acceleration while riding. It seems like I was getting a fraction of the power then it would all kick in at once. It still rode but almost threw me from the bike a couple times when the massive torque kicked in. Three weeks after taking it to an authorized Zero dealer, they say Zero HQ says it needs a new motor and most likely a controller too.

That will be $2100 for the motor, but probably $3600 for the pair. Mechanic said if the motor is bad you almost certainly need a new controller. The bike has ~1500 miles and a couple months past the drivetrain warranty expiration.

Has anyone experienced this or have any ideas of what do next beside shell out $3600? 

[Auriga]

Not much else to do, I'm afraid. I wouldn't say it's certain you'll need the new controller, but there is no way to test it without a new motor first.

Unfortunately there are no cheaper motor or controller replacements. It could be the controller and not the motor, but again there's no real way to know without the full logs and sometimes even with.

There are some simple motor diagnostics one could try with the right tools, measuring electrical resistance between poles, whether you feel resistance to the motor spinning with the bike off, etc. Those could tell you the motor is definitely done, but are not a guarantee.

It could be the motor position sensor. The logs would help with that, but Zero doesn't support replacing just that sensor for that motor. Some people have done it, but they've DIYed it. One benefit to the SRF/SRS is that that part can be easily swapped.

I have had some luck getting Zero to give a discount for repairs like this for people just outside warranty. You or your dealer could certainly call Zero HQ's Dealer Support and ask nicely. Sometimes I've gotten labor free or some percentage off for unlucky people like yourself.

[DonTom]

I took my Zero FX into the SF zero dealership after experiencing some sudden and jerky acceleration while riding. It seems like I was getting a fraction of the power then it would all kick in at once. It still rode but almost threw me from the bike a couple times when the massive torque kicked in. Three weeks after taking it to an authorized Zero dealer, they say Zero HQ says it needs a new motor and most likely a controller too.

That will be $2100 for the motor, but probably $3600 for the pair. Mechanic said if the motor is bad you almost certainly need a new controller. The bike has ~1500 miles and a couple months past the drivetrain warranty expiration.

Has anyone experienced this or have any ideas of what do next beside shell out $3600?

That sounds close to what happened to Shadow (moderator) here in this forum with his 2016 Zero DS. He said the bike tried to kill him. I got the tow truck for him and that leads to another story when his bike was in service here in Reno. His motor as replaced, but there were other issuers that led to the place no longer being allowed to be a Zero dealer.


Perhaps he will chime in here and tell the complete  story.


-Don-  REno, NV

[Crissa]

If only Zero spare parts didn't get nabbed up so fast on the secondary market!

-Crissa

[DonTom]

If only Zero spare parts didn't get nabbed up so fast on the secondary market!

-Crissa

In the later models, I don't think the home mechanic can change a motor without a Zero dealer being involved as it will require commissioning.


But perhaps your 2014 won't have that issue.


-Don-  Reno, NV

[rypher]

Ok, thanks for the replies. I gave the dealer the go-ahead to replace the motor. I suppose this is just more frustrating because unlike another engine, I cant take it anywhere for a second opinion.

And I love the bike too much to not fix it, haha.

I live in SF and have had a good experiences with SF Moto (dealer) in the past. I trust them on this but it sort of feels like Zero HQ was like "something is wrong, we don't know, replace everything".

[Richard230]

Ok, thanks for the replies. I gave the dealer the go-ahead to replace the motor. I suppose this is just more frustrating because unlike another engine, I cant take it anywhere for a second opinion.

And I love the bike too much to not fix it, haha.

I live in SF and have had a good experiences with SF Moto (dealer) in the past. I trust them on this but it sort of feels like Zero HQ was like "something is wrong, we don't know, replace everything".

I don't think Zero is the only vehicle manufacturer that has a similar philosophy toward fixing some problems. 

[rayivers]

I cant take it anywhere for a second opinion

Well, there is, but I'd call first - Hollywood Electrics in LA, IMO the best Zero dealer ever by far. (323) 654-8271, Harlan or Carl.  In 2019 I was planning on a motor/battery upgrade and wanted to check with them first, I was very glad I did.  Even if you stay with your current dealer they may still be able to help, but if it was my bike & I lived in SF it would already be up there. 

[Starpower]

Yep, it seems when in doubt replace it all is the MO for service these days. I had a drive problem with my Kuberg Ranger, seemed like a motor so I was given a new motor under warranty and no go, so they wanted to replace, motor, controller and throttle - all drive parts. At least it was under warranty. But with one dealer in the U.S. about 600 mi. from me I did the labor, that it was super easy. Turned out to be just the controller.

$3600 is a big bite, just think what a new ICE motor and ECU would cost!

[Shadow]

Perhaps he will chime in here and tell the complete  story.

Can confirm. I did eventually get eliminated from EV moto by another person driving a pickup truck though, so overall, I'd say other people driving are more surely worse for your chances of survival as a motorcyclist than a malfunctioning EV powertrain.

Sucks about the motor / controller expense. It could be something as simple as a target magnet coming loose opposing a hall sensor... about 30 cents of magnet and 31 hours of some gearhead trying to do surgery on a permanent magnet motor? replace the whole thing just makes a kind of sense then.

[princec]

It'd be nice if Zero did some sort of refurb/exchange program.

Cas

[Richard230]

Didn't Zero have a recall for the earlier legacy models due to the possibility of magnets coming loose in the motor?  I recall my 2014 bike being tested for such a possibility about 5 years ago.

[T.S. Zarathustra]

Considering how simple electric motors are, having the only option to replace the whole motor seems like a big step.
Personally before approving this expensive repair I would take the motor and controller apart and see if I could find abnormalities with visual inspection and simple multimeter.
At worst you can sell the broken motor and controller on Ebay and recover some of the cost.

[Auriga]

Perhaps he will chime in here and tell the complete  story.

Can confirm. I did eventually get eliminated from EV moto by another person driving a pickup truck though, so overall, I'd say other people driving are more surely worse for your chances of survival as a motorcyclist than a malfunctioning EV powertrain.

Sucks about the motor / controller expense. It could be something as simple as a target magnet coming loose opposing a hall sensor... about 30 cents of magnet and 31 hours of some gearhead trying to do surgery on a permanent magnet motor? replace the whole thing just makes a kind of sense then.

Yeah, this is pretty much the reasoning I got from Zero. We(Motorcycle dealers) don't want to do teardowns of motors.  Other than replacing the position sensor, which they did make easy on the FST motors, and maybe bearings replacing anything else is both hard, expensive, and requires specialized training/tools.

It'd probably take me around 4-6 hours to replace motor bearings and then test and commission the bike. At that point, the economics gets questionable at 100-200/hr. Replacing epoxied in magnets or shorted magnet wire coils? Forget about it.

Functionally simple is not the same thing as easy to repair. I wonder if anyone else in the EV industry is repairing motors. I thought I saw some posts about specialized outfits doing that. If so, I wonder what they cost.

[victor6.7y]

It is often difficult to measure how much it cost to let an mechanic work for an hour. Especially when it is specialized work.

On the other hand; maybe zero could help an costumer by selling the motor directly to a him. Than he or she can swap / align the motor my themselves. Without warranty of course.