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[noahabbott]

Hi smart people!

Longtime moto rider with little EV experience. Have an opportunity to buy a '16 FXS with low miles that rides great, shows 97% charge, etc. but has some cracks/damage to part of the battery enclosure (i think.)  Some of it seems like it would be easily fixed with a little plasticweld, but wanted to check to make sure I wasn't potentially buying a LION bomb waiting to happen. They're asking 3K for the bike.  Pics attached with damaged areas (best I remember.) Thanks!

[mdjak1]

What you are looking at there is totally normal.   Not a crack.   The modular batteries go in two different directions.   I will try to post a photo of my bike and show you.

[mdjak1]

Here is a photo of the left side.   Then also posted is the right side with the battery holding bar removed.   You can see the front battery is flipped and the part you are thinking is a crack is on the top.

$3000 is an awesome price for the bike assuming both batteries are working.    But I am not sure just reading the charge % is enough.   At a minimum, they should be able to scroll through the display menu and show the range.   At 97%, it should be in the 70+ mile reading.

When I bought my 2017 one battery wasn't working due to a bad BMS (battery management system) board in one of the batteries.   Because the battery was within the 5 year warranty, Zero replaced the BMS for free.   IIRC, the charge % still read up to 100% even though only 1 battery was working.   

[noahabbott]

Here is a photo of the left side.   Then also posted is the right side with the battery holding bar removed.   You can see the front battery is flipped and the part you are thinking is a crack is on the top.

$3000 is an awesome price for the bike assuming both batteries are working.    But I am not sure just reading the charge % is enough.   At a minimum, they should be able to scroll through the display menu and show the range.   At 97%, it should be in the 70+ mile reading.

When I bought my 2017 one battery wasn't working due to a bad BMS (battery management system) board in one of the batteries.   Because the battery was within the 5 year warranty, Zero replaced the BMS for free.   IIRC, the charge % still read up to 100% even though only 1 battery was working.

Thanks for those (much better) pictures- those pieces are actually cracked on this bike- like the plastic is loose. Doesn't seem to be the battery itself, as far as I can tell, just the housing, but I'm still worried that it might make the unit less fully sealed and lead to moisture vulnerability, etc.

Apparently the lady took the bike to AF1 Racing and they wouldn't buy it for that reason, but I think it may have just been dealer conservatism- yes, the pieces aren't perfect and could likely use replacement, but it seems like it may be largely cosmetic/harmless.

Forgot to take pictures yesterday, just asked the owner to send some along.

[noahabbott]

My language was a little confusing in the last post, so to clarify: those pieces are definitely cracked on this bike, some are like hairline cracks, but there are a few pieces that are broken to the point that a piece can be removed, and there's one small piece missing (about thumbnail sized.) Still don't think it's the battery itself, but not sure!  Thanks for the help!

[noahabbott]

Pictures! Notice the cracks/missing plastic.

[mdjak1]

So those aren't photos of the actual bike? 

I guess as long as both batteries are working, then I would buy it for $3000 (or less if they will negotiate).    You can probably glue it.   However, a new single modular battery is probably $2500-$3000.  If I had to guess, the bike with two good working batteries is probably worth $5500 or so. 

EDIT:  actual photos posted as I was typing.   Both batteries cracked around connectors.   Without the ability to pull them both out and carefully look at them, I would either pass or come in well below the asking price.   You are looking at probably $6k for two new batteries.

[noahabbott]

The ones I just posted above (zoomed in, highlighted in red & blue) are of the actual bike. The first ones were stock just to show the places that were the problem.

[Kappi]

When buying an electric bike, you basically buy the batteries and receive wheels, handlebar and the like as a bonus. Keep that in mind.
The important question to ask is: What cracked the batteries?
Not charging to 100% can be
a) a faulty charger (quite common)
b) a faulty cell in a battery pack .
While a) can be mediated by a "relatively cheap" new onboard charger or an external one, b) would cost more than the bike is worth.
If you can, get the logs from the bike and check for warnings / error messages.
There are some good posts in this forum dealing with log interpretation.

Greetings
Kappi

[mryan]

If you don't buy it, I will! Zero wants 3k for a single module. I'd take my chances with those cracks, I'm not sure I'd plastic weld because you can potentially cause damage with the heat. Maybe something like jbweld if you were really concerned, but I'd just run it, they are pretty secure in the frame.

[Auriga]

Another thing to note is that Zero does sell those plastic parts separately as repair items. Assuming the internal battery is good, and depending on where the cracks are, you may be able to replace them.

[mdjak1]

Another thing to note is that Zero does sell those plastic parts separately as repair items. Assuming the internal battery is good, and depending on where the cracks are, you may be able to replace them.

Do they really sell those parts?   I can't identify they from the parts PDF diagram.   And you would think if Zero did sell them, then AF1 would have been willing to buy the bike back as they could have repaired it and made money on it.  Of course, maybe AF1 knows one of the batteries is not working and that makes the bike worth a lot less to them.   

It would be good if Zero had a battery refurbishment service or sold replacement batteries for a reasonable price.   

[Auriga]

Sure, for example if you look at page 32 for this 19 FX.
https://www.af1racing.com/store/ProdImages/st3/19FX.pdf

You can see several plastic parts and their part numbers.

I've heard that before, but It's really not possible. There's no refurbishing a lithium ion battery, and where would Zero get used ones? I don't know any company that's doing that, from Tesla on down. Best you can do is buy second hand ones on the used market, but you need all your batteries to age together or else things don't work well.

[mdjak1]

Sure, for example if you look at page 32 for this 19 FX.
https://www.af1racing.com/store/ProdImages/st3/19FX.pdf

You can see several plastic parts and their part numbers.

I've heard that before, but It's really not possible. There's no refurbishing a lithium ion battery, and where would Zero get used ones? I don't know any company that's doing that, from Tesla on down. Best you can do is buy second hand ones on the used market, but you need all your batteries to age together or else things don't work well.

I have that PDF as well as others but sometime it is difficult to figure out these small parts as the picture in the PDF is only from one side and the part on the bike is on another side.   I guess those covers that the OP has cracked are #23.

Do the modular batteries need to age together?   They both have their own BMS.   When I had a bad battery (turned out to be the BMS) and was concerned that Zero might only replace one battery, people here told me that the two batteries are independent of each other and you can have a new one and an old one.

[Crissa]

The BMS can be replaced without changing the cells, I think.  The FXS modular batteries are a little more resilient to have two different monolith charge points since you can charge them separately.

-Crissa