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Author Topic: Going from a Zero SR to an SS9+  (Read 2054 times)

yhafting

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Going from a Zero SR to an SS9+
« on: July 15, 2021, 07:53:49 PM »

In this thread i will sum up my impressions after changing from a '15 Zero SR to an Energica Eva Esse Esse 9+ (Not RS or EMCE) during the summer of 2021.

First a little bit about me, to give some insight to who i am, so that readers may understand to what degree what i write may apply for others.

I am a Norwegian male, about 181cm tall, and weigh around 80-85 kg. My tallness is distributed so that my legs are about 33" inseam- which means my legs are about as long an average person around 190 cm tall, and my back is about as long as you would expect of a person of 170cm tall. In fact my wife at 163cm has almost the same length of her back as me.  I am educated in physics and electronics, and work as a lecturer in mechatronics and digital design at the University of Oslo. Previously i have worked as a digital design engineer and as a teacher in high school. I have been married to my wife since 2004 and together we have two sons. We now live about 40 km outside Oslo. My family means the world to me, but that is not what this post is about.

I have been driving cars since i turned 18 in 1993, but I got my first bike and pure EV in 2015 (the Zero SR) at the age of 40. I managed to do all the training to get a motorcycle license  (European A-license) within the following spring, so i got my license during summer 2016. My main motivation at the point of purchase was not going crazy driving in and out of the rush traffic in Oslo every working day. So at one point i sought out the dealer of Zero Motorcycles in Oslo, and ended up buying their demo-model for that year.

At the time of purchase of the Zero, the dealer still talked about Zeros being able to fast charge using Chademo. Im not sure whether he explained wrong, or if i just didn't listen well enough, but zero stopped shipping Chademo charging kits in 2014, and has not picked up on that part (so lets just say at the time of purchase i had my hopes up).
Now in traffic jams, the Zero mostly did what it should, allowing me to pass between those pesky cars, and allowing my mind to relax. Having learned to use a motorbike i soon ended up doing some short touring on my Zero; -mostly within the battery range, as there are many nice and twisty roads in the area where i live. Generally half my distance spent on the zero has been smaller tours. With that, the urge to go beyond the limits of the zero increased gradually.

In 2017 i had a slide on wet tarmac trying to pass a car (i knew i should not, but did still- stress-> pain and guilt and shame), and i felt how the bike turned in to a wild beast which threw me off on the high side. Thankfully the bike did not slide into anything or anyone, but my shoulder took some injury. Now my injury is mostly healed, but there are some limitations to what i can safely do having had what is called a "separated shoulder". The accident made me ponder why on earth that bike did not have some minimum control of traction. At the time of the accident, the rear wheel got maximum velocity in a zip once traction was lost. With only a minimum (about 10 lines of pseudo code) should have been enough to prevent this. So i swore to my self that my next bike would have traction control.

I got back on the bike in 2018, and while the SR itself basically worked, i got more and more frustrated by the limitations of charging. I had built my own (depot style) 4kW charger that i brought on a few trips, but it wasn't fast enough to warrant driving together with others or meet up for events. The internal charger on the zero gradually became more and more troublesome with its tendency to trip circuit breakers and causing sparking when being connected to the wall. At some point in 2020 i deemed the internal for unsafe, and started relying on my own depot charger, which in turn broke down (probably due to dust getting into it) after i moved to a larger house in 2020. So in 2021 i bought a used Quick Charger for the zero, and started using that until i sold the bike summer 2021. From my own experiences and all i have read on the forums, i feel that i don't quite trust the solutions Zero have for their S-line (S, SR, DS, DRS). By the fact that they have known these issues for years, and never really fixed them (or the lack of traction control for the same bike range) has made me want a different brand bike, although the Zeros are the electric bike that is easiest to get in my area. (Going ICE is not something i will consider).

Other than that, riding the Zero has been mostly fine, but i have found the seat to be quite uncomfortable after driving about an hour.

I have thought about the livewire, which until recently was much more expensive (though more readily available), but from what i have read, the ergonomics would suit me less (more suited for shorter legs and longer back)..

In March 2021 i finally had the finances in place and i was able to purchase and Import an Energica SS9+ model which i just recently got. Next i will write the initial impressions after riding the first day, and perhaps i will come back to this thread later to give some more details on how the ride and ownership compares to what i had.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2021, 11:22:47 PM by yhafting »
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yhafting

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Re: Going from a Zero SR to an SS9+
« Reply #1 on: July 15, 2021, 08:33:44 PM »

The first ride.
Today i had my first ride on the SS9+. I have not properly registered my bike yet (since it is an import), so i have today for riding, then the next ride will have to be next week when i bring the bike to the road authorities for registration.

After having unboxed the bike last week, i was a bit worried that the stretch forward to reach the handlebars could be an issue. This distance is noticeable longer than on the Zero, which makes the bike feel a lot bigger than the SR. Now as soon as i had ridden a few meters, it turned out that my worries were put to shame. It was not an issue, once i got my feet up on the pegs. The pegs feels as high or higher than on the SR. I do believe the SR seat height may be slightly higher.

On my first ride i rode about 145km, mostly on country roads and a little bit on a highway at 100km/h. I used my phones GPS to verify that my speedo (as mostly any Energica) is 10% off. That is you can safely go 10% faster than the speed limit when looking at the speedometer. While some are quite mad about this fact, i have now seen it with my own eyes, so i move on- Generally when i describe speed i will stick to the bike speed, not what the speedometer is reporting.

Generally the SS9 is quite similar to the Zero on the road. It is quite neutral, and i had no issues braking in turns (I'm not riding hard enough that the bike standing up becomes a problem, and it never was with the Zero either). Riding without regen, the bike brakes slightly more naturally than the zero, but it is also a bit heavier- which means that the bikes probably spend a little bit longer slowing down on its own at high speeds, and a bit shorter at low speeds.

The seat feels a bit hard to me. I think i would benefit from a taller seat. I got slightly less tired by riding the SS9 than i would expect with the Zero, but generally the seat comfort was not as plush on the first ride as many others have described. I suspect this may be because i got longer legs. It could also be that i should soften the suspension somewhat, but the factory settings seemed quite alright to me, but my butt rests more near the back than near my thighs (ie a taller seat, or lowered pegs might make sense). In fact i would much welcome cruiser type pegs to switch to driving on the highway- this was also the case with my SR, although adding pegs there would be too close to the front wheel.

EDIT:  The seat feels better when riding actively- but it is hard to do so, since traffic, sightlines and speed limits most of the time limits the degree of activeness quite a lot.  I can get some relaxation for my legs by sitting on the passenger seat while having the foot on the pegs. Reaching the handlebar is still possible although not comfortable. Sitting on the passenger seat, i get about 90 degrees for my knees, so a higher seat or lower pegs is something i will search for. I know there are some that has lowered the pegs, which is probably the easiest solution if it can be done without compromising the amount of lean angle i will use.

The SS9 feels 100% up to speed with the Zero in the twisties, as long as it is kept in Sport mode. The Modes in Energica has a slightly different mapping than Zero. For me i used to dial down the Zero to 67% for city/relaxed 1up driving, and Sport for 2up or to use when passing cars/ active driving. The Energica seems more controlled, so it is fine to leave it in sport mode. I haven't tried it in dense traffic yet, but i'm not sure I'll ever need changing from sport except for reminding me of rain conditions. So the speed control is better.

In highways (legal speeds of 90-110km/h in Norway) the SS9 feels much more at home than the SR ever did. Having more power available and a better suspension probably has a lot to say for this. Add also that the wind screen being further forward makes it more efficient than my SR touring screen ever was. Not sure how this holds up in the long run, but this is my initial impression. The SS9 screen is not adjustable, and it is fairly small but it seems they have nailed it. At this day of course, the weather was so warm i would have lived well without it, but it saved me from crushing a few bugs with my jacket, and i believe i will appreciate it when the autumn chill sets in. 

Before my first ride, i adjusted the chain tension down from its initial setting. After having ridden 70 km i noticed that it had gotten more free play than i set, so i adjusted it halfway back after returning. This could be all normal, but this is my first chained bike.

Charging on a public CCS charger went fine. Went from 60 to 80% in 10 minutes (default settings and some setup-time). I will see if i can add some images later- right now i should go out and ride some more while i still can using red number plates (valid today).

EDIT: When it comes to consumption, my first two rides was 80 and 70 wh/km, the last one mostly being on 80-90km/h highways for some 160 km. In my first day i passed 300km which is the longest ride in a day i have had to date.  On my SR, the reported average consumption was between 66 and 70 wh/km. Judging by how much the bike brakes without any regeneration activated, i would guess the consumption should be higher for the SS9.

EDIT: I spent the last hour of my 24hour temporary license plate doing some parking-lot exercises. It does not take long to get used to the bikes behavior, and it is easy to control down to about 3-4km/h in sport mode. For the Zero SR, that would be more difficult. The bike is heavier, but it is not intimidating to try parking lot exercises. I will of course need some time to perfect them. Using my body as counterweight is easier, but perhaps more is required when leaning the bike much. I am not inclined to go to fast with this (i dont want to drop it). First try i can reasonably effectively U-turn in three parking lot width- my limit is currently around 2.5 (these are not particularly wide). This means i need some extra space making a U-turn on narrow roads. On a normal road i can U-turn, but it is a mental challenge at the moment. With the Zero SR i got to the point where that was OK, but that took a lot of practice of course. I am not sure this bike will go as tight as the SR- it may be possible- but that will require some skill i have yet to acquire.
   
« Last Edit: July 16, 2021, 11:27:01 PM by yhafting »
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MVetter

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Re: Going from a Zero SR to an SS9+
« Reply #2 on: July 15, 2021, 09:06:35 PM »

Sounds like you've got some fun roads to explore!
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Richtea

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Re: Going from a Zero SR to an SS9+
« Reply #3 on: July 16, 2021, 04:31:44 AM »

Good write-up, thanks. Very useful for those wanting to understand the differences between (almost) the only sensible electric bikes.
Keep them coming.
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yhafting

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Re: Going from a Zero SR to an SS9+
« Reply #4 on: July 16, 2021, 11:42:40 PM »

Sounds like you've got some fun roads to explore!

Indeed. Although the road quality often is so-so, we have plenty of twisty and narrow roads with nice views to explore in the area where i live. As opposed to what i see from several youtubers, we don't have many very straight roads here in Norway- that is mostly only highways or city streets. With the Zero ive seen most paved roads within 60 km radius from home, but going further has been kind of difficult since charging never was convenient. Now that i can charge fast, it is probably my knees and butt that are limiting me, so i probably will explore a few possibilities of customization to alleviate those issues.  :) 
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yhafting

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Re: Going from a Zero SR to an SS9+
« Reply #5 on: July 16, 2021, 11:43:58 PM »

Good write-up, thanks. Very useful for those wanting to understand the differences between (almost) the only sensible electric bikes.
Keep them coming.

Thanks :) Ill see what i can do!
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yhafting

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Re: Going from a Zero SR to an SS9+
« Reply #6 on: July 24, 2021, 03:08:11 AM »

Good write-up, thanks. Very useful for those wanting to understand the differences between (almost) the only sensible electric bikes.
Keep them coming.

One peculiar thing i have noted- now if this seems different to you please say so-

Coasting on an Energica seems to slow down the bike faster (unless going >100 km/h -ish) compared to the SR i had. However- If you are at 100% charge you do not get regen- which is a bit odd in itself (given that this usually only last for a few hundred meters). But at 100% the bike coasts much more freely than using no regen from the menu. At 100% charge i pick up or maintain speed at relatively slight slopes, which seems impossible when letting go of the throttle coasting once im down to 99 or 98%.

Adding to this, going from no to low regen is noticable, but a small change in my experience so far. This has lead me to use low setting for quite some time, because it mostly seems adequate for me trailing into corners.

Now if this is correct, this means the bike probably does some regen while "coasting", and that my initial puzzled feel of the bike wasting quite significant amount of energy may be entirely wrong. So while this makes sense, it also begs the question why doesn't the bike coast when i tell it to do so?
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PWM

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Re: Going from a Zero SR to an SS9+
« Reply #7 on: July 24, 2021, 04:37:46 AM »

The regen inhibit @ full capacity seems to be a BMS function.

The traction controller mode is assumed fixed and regen level is parameter driven to where a residual values exists likely to ensure off-throttle on-throttle transition is smooth w/o band-gap, no?

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yhafting

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Re: Going from a Zero SR to an SS9+
« Reply #8 on: July 24, 2021, 02:20:56 PM »

The regen inhibit @ full capacity seems to be a BMS function.

The traction controller mode is assumed fixed and regen level is parameter driven to where a residual values exists likely to ensure off-throttle on-throttle transition is smooth w/o band-gap, no?
What you say does seem right, i just do not understand why one would need a residual parameter for throttle on, when you can emulate coasting by adding some throttle (transition is then smooth).

My car (2016 Ionic EV) does this transition well enough and it coasts fine, my Zero had a noticeable gap when regen was turned to 0.
I think i would have preferred to have real coasting available, even with a slight gap. It is not that i can't live with it as it is, i just think having perfect coasting would be better.
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yhafting

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Re: Going from a Zero SR to an SS9+
« Reply #9 on: August 03, 2021, 06:39:00 PM »

I now have ridden about 1400 km, here is a writeup on a 182 km round trip i did yesterday, combined with some of my thoughts so far.

Introduction
Yesterday i went to Charlottenberg, Sweden to purchase some cheap glutenfree food. The trip to Charlottenberg mostly consist of twisty road, in which most are in reasonably good condition, and the weather was well suitable for a ride -basicly there was a 18-24 degrees celcius and partial cloud cover forecast. From where i live it is about 91 or 92 km in one direction. Technically i could have ridden both ways without charging, that would for sure induce some range anxiety. I left home at around 1400 and arrived at Charlottenberg around 1530with around 56% charge left, and I got lucky and found one of the two (non Tesla) free AC chargers that i could use while shopping. In the end i left at about 17:25 with 72% charge.
Now due to covid, there are restrictions to enter Norway from Sweden, which should not be a problem to me, as i have my corona-pass having taken my first vaccine shot more than a month ago. The only problem is that the border control does not cope with traffic; under normal circumstances they only stop ppl on random or suspicion. This means there was a 5km queue to get into Norway, and it was moving very slow. My original thought was to stop and check whether there was a queue at the border before entering Sweden, but I was caught off guard as the queue started somewhere i could not make a turn, so i just went with it and took the queue.

Tank bag
At 17:15 the weather was warm as anticipated, but thankfully there was shadow most of the places the queue stopped. The 5 km queue back into the Norwegian border took slightly more than 4 hours (I texted my wife after passing the border control at 21:37). One lesson learned from being in such a queue is that it is much more convenient having your food and drinks in a tank bag than in a locked sidecase or stowed in a bag on the pillion seat. In the Zero i had earlier, i always had some stash in the tank storage which in a way resembles a small tank bag. On the SS9 i did buy a tank bag, but i didn't mount it for this trip (next time i definitely will). When you cannot know how much time you have to work with your luggage, the fastest available option will beat any other.
Most of the time the queue was standing still, and now and then it moved 50-200 meters at a slow pace.

Heated Grips
Between 20 and 22 the temperature usually falls drastically, and I did not anticipate being out that long, since my earlier experience is that the trip takes slightly less than two hours with a car (each way). Now most of the trip back home was in the range of 12-14 degrees celcius, and not the 18-24 I had anticipated. Thankfully I had stowed my winter gloves and the rain gear, but I regret not having stowed a down jacket to use as a mid layer (at 18 degrees that would be overkill, but 12 is a whole different story). With the SS9 I now have the luxury comfort of having heated handgrips, which served me well. Of course it cannot compete with dressing properly for the temperature (which I had not), but it did help a lot. I started out using 2/3 of the power on the heated grips, but soon realized it is an all or nothing feature. Once the winter gloves isn’t enough, you will need the full blast, no less. Previously I have only tried this feature when it was sufficiently warm that I did not need it, and then perhaps the lower settings would make sense. All in all I am happy that I have this feature, because I will probably use it on a daily basis later this autumn when I commute to work.  I am also very happy that the bike has an air temperature gauge being displayed at the front. This is really something every bike should have (The Zero did not have it), as it gives you information that enables you to better learn how to gear up in different conditions, and to learn when frost is about to form.

High and low beams
While riding home, dusk turned into night, so I got to use the high beam. One thing I noticed is that the low beam does much more to the ground near you than the high beam. This forces you to shift focus further ahead when using high beam, which perhaps is for the better when riding on country roads; but it also means that in situations where the focus needs to be close (such as roundabouts or tight corners), you will be better served using the low beam. The high beam does not compete with the sodium street lights, as certain car-beams  do, but it is strong and high enough that I had a couple of cars signaling me that I should use the low beam. One did so when I forgot to turn it down, the other so early that one could argue that I should wait longer, however the point being is that the light is strong enough that it will be noticed unless turned down. With my Zero someone signaling that the high beam was on would be less frequent, but since I cannot put the bikes side to side, it is hard to tell whether this was coincidence or not. Anyway the beam pattern is perfectly OK, slightly better light distribution than how I remember the Zero, but I guess there will always be some that would want more (as with all cars I have owned).

Range
When I got home I had about 22 or 23% range left, which means that I used about 49% of the available energy on my way home. Given a temperature drop of 10 degrees celcius, and that I probably went slower at night than during day, I think this was reasonable. If there had been rain or a change in wind condition, the consumption could have changed more than the what I might have available if I did this trip without charging.

Now I found out how to reset the wh/km average, by advice I got on the Energica owners facebook- nowat the present I’d consider this a hack or a bug, since when having the bike in the correct riding screen (not the default one), you can hold the mode button to reset the trip-meter, which first indicates yellow, but in stead of resetting the trip counter, you press right, then hold mode for 2 seconds- which will reset the wh/km setting. With my firmware (EU 39) there is however no other indication that this is what happens (so you operate blindly) as the yellow colour on the trip meter vanishes when pressing right, and nothing in particular is displayed, except for the chosen riding screen until the average wh/km is reset.
The bike reported 60 wh/km for the last half of the trip but I doubt this is entirely true. If I 16kwh would be available at the time at full charge, using 49% of that in 91 km would indicate that I used 86 wh/km. Now of course some if those calories were burnt while standing still. The 4 hours spent on the first 5 kilometers took about 2-3%, which isn’t completely bad considering that lights were on all the time- however I switched to Dalight running lights being on auto to save the 15W buld when standing still. 
All in all, the bike seems to have a range of about 180 km with my style of riding on twisty roads. I can go both harder and slower than this, but to me this serves as a reasonable reference. For trips at or above approximately 150km I will certainly plan charging even if it is not needed, but I much rather prefer returning at 30% than at 5%.

Riding Modes
At the present I have ridden 1400 km and yesterday I tried out doing most of the riding in urban mode. Now when I first tried the bike, I said there is little reason to change from sport mode, which is very manageable due to excellent control, but im going to moderate that statement a little bit now.  Comparing to the zero which was mostly all right, for me at 80-85 kg changing modes would be something I did frequently, as the throttle control in sport wasn’t all that good in slow/ dense traffic, and you would need it every time 90km/h or above was a suitable speed. With the SS9, the throttle response in Sport is so good, there is less need to change, however I found good purpose for the Urban and perhaps the rain mode too. The reason for picking Urban over Sport is mostly relaxation. You can be slightly less precise (because the mode is more precise having a lower maximum torque output), and it just is more relaxing to ride in this mode. At times I would change to sport to pass a car, since this helps you gain speed much faster, but it is entirely doable in urban too. So when going on longer trips, where fatigue is an issue, the urban mode can be great, and I am sure I will use it more from now on. I have still not decided whether Urban or sport will be the most favorable mode for my commute to work. With the Zero I mostly used my own custom mode when commuting since it was much better when splitting lanes. With the SS9 I can probably use any for that purpose. Now at first, coming from the Zero, I found urban to be more difficult than handling the bike in sport when going at low speed. Now being more tuned with the bike and the urban mode, I believe the urban mode actually is better for slow speed maneuvering, but it just took me some additional time to get used to. Perhaps if I came from and ICE bike, id be more happy to do my slow speed maneuvering in Urban from the beginning. It is all about how much you have to turn the throttle to get the desired response.
The eco mode (which according to the manual turns off anything unnecessary (heated grips,?) and introduces a 90km/h hard speed limit is something I probably never will use. Id actually prefer if I could remove it as an option (ie a preference to not show eco when riding).

So far I have done little riding in rain on my Eva, but I think the rain mode serves well as a reminder on what surface you are riding on. It seems more docile than eco did on the zero, which probably is a good thing, especially if you have somehow managed to turn off traction control. For me the traction control will stay on at all times, but there will always be the issue of sliding out in turns. The SS9 makes turns beautifully, and I can go faster and more confident into turns than with my zero, so a gentle reminder to slow down a few notches when wet is probably a good thing for me.

Regeneration modes
Weighing almost 85 kg’s I mostly find the low-setting sufficient for braking and trailing into turns. While I would still much prefer having the option to switch regeneration modes without going into menus, I mostly find myself switching between no regen and low regen. At the times low regen is not enough, I am mostly happy to use the front brake, as this both gives more traction, and it is mostly sufficient to only use it very gently. Other riders may of course feel entirely different than I do on this, depending on riding style, weight and experience.

Suspension.
I have adjusted the suspension quite much softer than the stock settings. The stock preload was not too far off (according to the book), and the ride felt safe enough at the stock setting, but I prefer having both rebound and compression damping a lot softer. The bitubo rear I have softened the preload slightly to get into the recommended range, and I have set the bottom dial to the softest available spot. This has made the ride noticeably more comfortable than even one notch harder. On the Marzocchi front, the preload initially seemed to be where it should, but I am close to using the softest settings available on both rebound/extension and compression damping. This have made the bike noticable more comfortable to ride over bumps, but I guess I could go even softer. I did use strips on the front forks to see how much play I have, so I reckon I could allow some more play without fearing I would bottom out the spring. I have not tried my softer settings with a passenger, but I guess it will be fine, since I usually go slightly more gently then.

Keyless option
I bought my SS9 with keyless option, which I am happy that I did. I have seen the “key not in range” warning on a couple of occations, but I haven’t had any issues where things did not work as it should. So far I am happy that I have the keyless option, although the key is used when opening the seat to allow for charging. This means I have to bring out the key when parking at home or charging, which seems ok. Im not too afraid of leaving the key in the seat, since it can always be taken out immediately (there is no reason to leave it there once the seat is open).

Parking lot modes
The reverse mode is handy when parking the bike. I like the way it is implemented, it is not something that will happen at a surprise, and it goes to reverse first which does make sense. Personally, being able to flat foot the bike, I only need the slow forward mode when having to go back and forth several times. Sitting on the bike, I can maneuver the bike well even in sport mode going forward, so the benefit of the slow forward is mostly that the throttle response matches that of the reverse when going back and forth, and that you can switch between slow reverse and fast with short button push. Comparing to the Zero, this is hands down better. The SR is lighter, but still heavy to back up and move around. With the SS9, moving around in a parking lot is not an issue, thanks reverse and slow forward. I do not consider it an issue that it takes a couple of seconds switching between go and reverse. I believe one could switch from reverse to “go” fast by using the kill switch or kickstand, but waiting 2 seconds isn’t an issue for me.

Sound.
I usually listen to music while riding, at least when riding for pleasure (not always when commuting due to dense traffic). The SS9 has a more pronounced sound than the Zero ever had, but I still can enjoy music while riding, so while it would like as quiet as possible, I still find it manageable. Other people still comments on how quiet it is, which I think partially is because it makes no sound standing still, partially because there are enough of bikes making a whole lot more noise, even though some ICE bikes probably run more silent.   

Maintenance.
When comparing to the Zero, there are some fluids that must be serviced/changed, which adds to the cost of the bike and there is chain maintenance that the SR simply does not have. The benefit from having the chain is that you don’t have to worry about the belt snapping from debris or pebbles, which at times made rides a nervous exercise with the Zero. I know some would ride their belt driven zeros offroad, but having experienced the belt snapping due to a belt not being much protected, for the time being, the chain gives more confidence when riding on gravel.
 
EDIT: Center of mass
I have tried to brake while making a turn to see how much the bike will raise up due to the bike geometry. This is one thing that i have been a bit concerned about due to some early (13.4 model) reviews complaining of the tendency for the bike to raise up when braking in corners. As far as i know the model i have has a slightly lower center of mass than the 13.4 model, and the newer EMCE motor models will have an even lower center of mass. Now the way i ride, during my normal ride, i feel no particular tendency of the bike to raise, or misbehave when trailbraking into corners. I have attempted to make an emergency brake (ie almost come to a stop from 80-km/h or so) while in a turn with reasonable lean, and then the bike will raise up, without doubt, but this is hard for me to accomplish (I never tried braking that hard in a corner with my zero). When braking reasonably hard compared to what i normally would, whatever tendency the bike has of raising up is little enough that i compensate without giving it much thought. So for me, the bike feels neutral and stable during turns- in a way that gives me more confidence than my zero ever did.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2021, 12:47:39 AM by yhafting »
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Richtea

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Re: Going from a Zero SR to an SS9+
« Reply #10 on: August 04, 2021, 01:10:39 AM »

Another great write-up thanks - very useful. And in a foreign language too. My attempt to do a similar piece in Norwegian would be woeful!
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yhafting

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Re: Going from a Zero SR to an SS9+
« Reply #11 on: August 19, 2021, 10:55:09 PM »

The seat feels a bit hard to me. I think i would benefit from a taller seat. I got slightly less tired by riding the SS9 than i would expect with the Zero, but generally the seat comfort was not as plush on the first ride as many others have described. I suspect this may be because i got longer legs. It could also be that i should soften the suspension somewhat, but the factory settings seemed quite alright to me, but my butt rests more near the back than near my thighs (ie a taller seat, or lowered pegs might make sense). In fact i would much welcome cruiser type pegs to switch to driving on the highway- this was also the case with my SR, although adding pegs there would be too close to the front wheel.

EDIT:  The seat feels better when riding actively- but it is hard to do so, since traffic, sightlines and speed limits most of the time limits the degree of activeness quite a lot.  I can get some relaxation for my legs by sitting on the passenger seat while having the foot on the pegs. Reaching the handlebar is still possible although not comfortable. Sitting on the passenger seat, i get about 90 degrees for my knees, so a higher seat or lower pegs is something i will search for. I know there are some that has lowered the pegs, which is probably the easiest solution if it can be done without compromising the amount of lean angle i will use.


Ergonomics

I ended up buying and installing handle bar risers from voigt:
https://voigt-mt.de/Handlebar-risers-30mm-with-offset-21mm-for-Energica-Eva-EsseEsse9-Ribelle-black-anodized

To install these i had to move the front brake line (unhook from the brake lever and make it not pass through by the front light). This required two copper crushers and a small amount of brake fluid that had to be bled through the brake lever bleeding tap. Not too difficult, but one should know how to bleed the brakes (watch a few youtube videos on the topic and you are good to go).

Having moved the handlebars a couple of centimeters back and slightly up made the ergonomics much better for me. I can sit more upright, which i need most when commuting during rush hours (when lanesplitting and going slow). Having changed this, it seems i get less tired in my feet as well. While i could lower the footpegs, it seems less necessary after getting the handle bar risers. I don't know if ill feel the same riding for hours, but right now, the commute is most important, and it just works very well now.   
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yhafting

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Re: Going from a Zero SR to an SS9+
« Reply #12 on: August 22, 2021, 07:49:14 PM »

I now have ridden about 1400 km, here is a writeup on a 182 km round trip i did yesterday, combined with some of my thoughts so far.
Suspension.
I have adjusted the suspension quite much softer than the stock settings. The stock preload was not too far off (according to the book), and the ride felt safe enough at the stock setting, but I prefer having both rebound and compression damping a lot softer. The bitubo rear I have softened the preload slightly to get into the recommended range, and I have set the bottom dial to the softest available spot. This has made the ride noticeably more comfortable than even one notch harder. On the Marzocchi front, the preload initially seemed to be where it should, but I am close to using the softest settings available on both rebound/extension and compression damping. This have made the bike noticable more comfortable to ride over bumps, but I guess I could go even softer. I did use strips on the front forks to see how much play I have, so I reckon I could allow some more play without fearing I would bottom out the spring. I have not tried my softer settings with a passenger, but I guess it will be fine, since I usually go slightly more gently then.

2up suspension.
After having adjusted the suspension to nearly full soft, today i did another trip with my wife as passenger (~150km) on twisty and sometimes bumpy back roads. The soft settings work just fine with her on the pillion seat. In fact i would reckon the setting is probably better with her on than off the bike. Im not sure what our combined weight is exactly but somewhere around 150 kg is likely correct. On the Zero SR i had to go more carefully than i like to avoid bottoming out the rear suspension. With the SS9, i can go faster over bumps and i have not yet felt anything bottoming out.

2up seat.
I have been pondering on making a sissy bar/ back rest for the pillion seat, but finding a good way to attach a back rest is difficult. However, so far my wife does not say she needs it (although it would be nice to have). One thing to note here is that my wife is not too big for the seat, and she is used to riding horses, so she is confident mostly holding her place with her thighs and legs. The side cases gives her some feel for the position, so that helps. The handles under the seat is hard to reach for a pillion rider, so they are not much help. However, and  more importantly, the seat is much more comfortable (for both) than the Zero ever was, and the SS9 seat provides more friction- thus there is less sliding back and forth.

Now if Energica is reading this- for the 2up experience, a small "bump" to tell the pillion rider where the seat ends would be nice, or an optional small back rest that would either follow the seat or be attached to the side case rack. It is unlikely that I would purchase an entire new seat for this, but if a back rest could be attached later that would be something i would look into.

Generally I feel more confident having a passenger on the SS9 than the previous bike, mostly because the bike handles better.   
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Demoni

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Re: Going from a Zero SR to an SS9+
« Reply #13 on: August 26, 2021, 01:32:22 PM »

Love to read your feedback on the EsseEsse9 and how the experience compares to the SR.



Suspension.
I have adjusted the suspension quite much softer than the stock settings. The stock preload was not too far off (according to the book), and the ride felt safe enough at the stock setting, but I prefer having both rebound and compression damping a lot softer. The bitubo rear I have softened the preload slightly to get into the recommended range, and I have set the bottom dial to the softest available spot. This has made the ride noticeably more comfortable than even one notch harder. On the Marzocchi front, the preload initially seemed to be where it should, but I am close to using the softest settings available on both rebound/extension and compression damping. This have made the bike noticeably more comfortable to ride over bumps, but I guess I could go even softer. I did use strips on the front forks to see how much play I have, so I reckon I could allow some more play without fearing I would bottom out the spring. I have not tried my softer settings with a passenger, but I guess it will be fine, since I usually go slightly more gently then.

As with every bike the factory suspension needs to work with a 120 lb rider and a 250 lb rider. I weigh 185 and my sweet spot is 1 turn out of the shock preload.
Just FYI the Bitubo shock on your bike does not have adjustment for compression damping. The adjuster at the base is for rebound adjustment. I find the Bitubo works quite well on smoother roads but the rebound can feel a bit fast when things get rough. I have only run the bikes solo, riding 2 up would probably smooth things out. I would guess that 1-2 turns of the preload adjustment should give you enough support when going from a setting that works for solo riding to 2 up.

The stock settings on the Marzocchi forks feel good to me but sounds like your riding style might be different. If you are not using all the travel backing each legs preload out 1 turn would give you a more plush ride. Just note that the forks bottom out ~20mm before the fork lowers.

I am a firm believer in having my bike suspension set up by a specialist, I am blessed with a number of very well respected professionals near by. Getting the "clickers" adjusted for both solo and 2 up riding can be a game changer. A good shop can make recommendations for other changes like spring rate, valving changes for compression and rebound circuits and oil weight adjustments. Alternatively HyperPro offers a bolt in rear shock that adds compression adjustment.
I had the internals of our EGO track bikes Ohlins reworked to my weight and riding capabilities. Night and day difference and gave me so much more confidence when pushing the limits.



2up seat.
I have been pondering on making a sissy bar/ back rest for the pillion seat, but finding a good way to attach a back rest is difficult. However, so far my wife does not say she needs it (although it would be nice to have). One thing to note here is that my wife is not too big for the seat, and she is used to riding horses, so she is confident mostly holding her place with her thighs and legs. The side cases gives her some feel for the position, so that helps. The handles under the seat is hard to reach for a pillion rider, so they are not much help. However, and  more importantly, the seat is much more comfortable (for both) than the Zero ever was, and the SS9 seat provides more friction- thus there is less sliding back and forth.

As an predominantly solo rider, passenger comfort is something I take for granted. Recently I have been giving backrest solutions a second look. Right now the only option is a custom fabricated one. I have seen a few bikes with top box solutions. Most build off the factory side bag racks and use a Givi mounting plate to allow the addition of many different top cases. The factory EsseEsse9 passenger handles look like a perfect tie in location for a backrest. I'll try to sketch out my design idea and post it.

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yhafting

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Re: Going from a Zero SR to an SS9+
« Reply #14 on: September 04, 2021, 01:50:40 AM »

Love to read your feedback on the EsseEsse9 and how the experience compares to the SR.



As with every bike the factory suspension needs to work with a 120 lb rider and a 250 lb rider. I weigh 185 and my sweet spot is 1 turn out of the shock preload.
Just FYI the Bitubo shock on your bike does not have adjustment for compression damping. The adjuster at the base is for rebound adjustment. I find the Bitubo works quite well on smoother roads but the rebound can feel a bit fast when things get rough. I have only run the bikes solo, riding 2 up would probably smooth things out. I would guess that 1-2 turns of the preload adjustment should give you enough support when going from a setting that works for solo riding to 2 up.

The stock settings on the Marzocchi forks feel good to me but sounds like your riding style might be different. If you are not using all the travel backing each legs preload out 1 turn would give you a more plush ride. Just note that the forks bottom out ~20mm before the fork lowers.

I am a firm believer in having my bike suspension set up by a specialist, I am blessed with a number of very well respected professionals near by. Getting the "clickers" adjusted for both solo and 2 up riding can be a game changer. A good shop can make recommendations for other changes like spring rate, valving changes for compression and rebound circuits and oil weight adjustments. Alternatively HyperPro offers a bolt in rear shock that adds compression adjustment.
I had the internals of our EGO track bikes Ohlins reworked to my weight and riding capabilities. Night and day difference and gave me so much more confidence when pushing the limits.

As an predominantly solo rider, passenger comfort is something I take for granted. Recently I have been giving backrest solutions a second look. Right now the only option is a custom fabricated one. I have seen a few bikes with top box solutions. Most build off the factory side bag racks and use a Givi mounting plate to allow the addition of many different top cases. The factory EsseEsse9 passenger handles look like a perfect tie in location for a backrest. I'll try to sketch out my design idea and post it.


Thanks again for feedback Demoni!

I tried one (more) full turn out on the rear preload (at approximately 1.5 turn out from the stock setting). It does seem better. I guess i can go further, but i try testing at least for a week before changing, since it is quite good already. With my wife on the rear seat that worked well with 1 step in on the rear rebound damping. When going solo i still like to have it on the least dampened setting. So from this perspective i think it seems i could go one more round out on the preload.

There is one thing about the rear preload adjustment that puzzles me, and that is that the instruction manual says not to touch the set screw while adjusting preload. Do you know why it is not recommended adjusting it? I would expect to undo it then make sure i can reach it after adjusting- then refasten it after adjustment. By forcing the preload out as it is there is some force required and screechy noises. 

I think seeing a specialist for the suspension is ideal, and i can see the appeal. It is hard to discern what makes a good change. Currently i don't know any nearby professionals that could help, and  i'm perhaps a bit sceptical of trusting someone new with this, and i would like to understand properly, and be able to feel the nuances myself.   

The way i see it just now is that i probably should do one (or perhaps two) more turn out on the rear preload still (even though i might get slightly more sag than specified). Once the rear preload is where (I think) it should be, i would expect to increase rebound damping at the rear, and then perhaps some compression/ rebound damping in the front, as one feeling soft would influence the whole system. Going over big bumps it does take about 1.5s for suspension to settle while alone (and about 2 with my wife on), but normally it is less. Ive adjusted the front dampening a tiny bit in due to this, but more dampening does feel more harsh just now. There is of course an open question to whether i could soften the front preload, but i think i have it as soft as i want. (Trying emergency braking i know i could be close to bottoming out, without having felt that at all- while normal riding leaves me enough travel by normal standards).

Generally i feel the suspension now is set up better than i had the Zero, but i believe it still can be improved some; which i probably will attempt to reach within this autumn.

Regarding the backrest, my wife concluded the last time we rode that it is nice to be able to swing the leg over the rear end of the bike- so all she would wish for now is a small bump at the end of the seat (2-3cm tall/long would make it easy to feel if she sits too far back). I would guess however that not every pillion is used to riding the way she is. :)
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