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[electrictwowheeler]

Oh, I forgot that you are charging at a much higher rate than I am here in the US with only 120v AC available at home. The SOC seems much more accurate with the lower charge rates I am using. I read in a post about DIY installation of the Charge tank on the SR/F that the Firmware is not changed. You would think that bikes sold in countries with 220V mains voltage would require different firmware for SOC calculation but that does not seem the case. I'll try to watch the SOC behavior when a charge target is set while charging on 220V. I have never done that because when charging on the road I want as high an SOC as I can get in the time I have to charge. Usually while having lunch so I never set a target SOC while charging during a ride.

[electrictwowheeler]

I got a chance to charge from 56% to a set charge target of 80% at a level 2 charge station so a charge rate of around 55 amps. The  charge started to taper at 82% and the SOC reached 87% when it shut itself off. So definitely over shooting the set target. I rode 8 miles home at like 50 mph and the SOC was at 80% which seemed normal. It didn't drop rapidly. The next day the SOC had dropped to 77%. So my bike acts the same as yours but is not as far off. Could the effect just be exaggerated by your increased charging rate? According to your Data you charge at home at over 9 KW, I am charging at home at 1.3KW. Do you get the SOC errors if you drastically reduce the charge rate? It will be interesting to see what Zero says. For me, charging at my lower rate the indicated SOC seems perfectly acceptable as long as I understand how it reacts. Yes, room for improvement but the SOC is not really very easy to calculate with so many variables.

[Mooseman]

Except it is, because my Tesla and my gf's Chevy Bolt do exactly that. Hell, even my phone (ok, it always charges to 100%) doesn't lose SoC just like that.

With the other bugs in the firmware I'll have to assume that the programmers just did a bad job, which on the other hand means that there is a chance that they will eventually get it right.

[NervEasy]

Yeah my Zero S always had perfect SoC representation. Did 26000 km with it in a bit over a year. Never had SoC jumps, it was always predictable (I could predict within 1% what my SoC usage would be at the end of a trip). Regularly charged at 6kw and 7.3 (with OBC charger). Charging time estimates where spot on. So they had it perfect there.

Now it's just a bit of a joke... All numbers are just wildly inaccurate. Everything you see on the dash can't be trusted, except the clock, temp. and speedo.

[electrictwowheeler]

When charging on level 2 at 5.8KW the SOC reaches 100% 6 minutes before the charger shuts down on my bike. That is about 2 or 3 % over actual SOC if I unplugged at that point. The speedometer and odometer consistently over read by 4% as compared to my GPS. So we should add the speedometer to the category of wildly over reading instrumentation. That only leaves the temp and clock.

[Richard230]

When charging on level 2 at 5.8KW the SOC reaches 100% 6 minutes before the charger shuts down on my bike. That is about 2 or 3 % over actual SOC if I unplugged at that point. The speedometer and odometer consistently over read by 4% as compared to my GPS. So we should add the speedometer to the category of wildly over reading instrumentation. That only leaves the temp and clock.

The motor temperature gauge of my Zero seems to read about 20 degrees high, after parked in my garage all night, compared with the thermometer in my garage. The clock on my bike's display runs fast, to the tune of about 2 minutes per month. So that should about cover just about everything. 

[Zelidar]

- Magic Charging
- Seemingly overshooting charging goals (which in the end probably is not, but it seems)
- Incorrect indicated SoC (too high) while charging

Now approaching 28'000 km on my SR/F with the original battery. Firmware V19 was installed during the 20'000 km service done in March 2021. Since May 2021, battery related problems are piling up (*). Before that, every was as good as Swiss chocolates, or Belgian beers.

On top of the above three I am adding:
- No more notifications from the app. Fortunately I can still obtain the SoC information on my phone.
- My range estimate is at least 100 km shorter than it was before. It does go down a little slower than usual, but for a full charge I am still short of about 50-100 km from what I had last summer.

+ What didn't change is charging, that still mostly works just like it did last summer, 2.9 kW at home/work, 5.8 kW elsewhere.

According to Zero's manual, I should not notice any range reduction before about 4-5 years or 300'000 km, so if my battery is still fine, what isn't?

(*)

• [SR/F] Strongly intermittent engine braking when driving downhill
  
• Zero SR/F won't charge
  

[Mooseman]

According to Zero's manual, I should not notice any range reduction before about 4-5 years or 300'000 km, so if my battery is still fine, what isn't?

Unfortunately that's not how it works. Batteries usually lose a bit of capacity right at the beginning, then continue to lose capacity at a low rate. When they start losing more capacity again quickly they're about to die.

The manual also states that the figures apply to city driving where you don't usually stress the battery.

There are other factors that will affect battery life. Generally speaking you should avoid a high or low state of charge. It's okay as long as you don't let the battery sit at 100% state of charge or at almost empty. Winter driving shouldn't be an issue for a motorcycle but driving like a maniac in hot weather and recharging the battery while it's hot should also be avoided where possible.

There's a lot more to battery life, but the bottom line is that the battery won't stay at full capacity for 300.000 km and then fail all out of a sudden. Degradation happens gradually.

Given the relatively high charge/discharge rates and the fact that the battery isn't liquid cooled I would expect about 1000 to 1200 full charge cycles in real-world conditions. Maybe a bit more with a power tank equipped.

So if you can do 160 km with a fully charged battery, that would translate to 160,000 to 192,000 km of battery life.

The figures Zero states in the manual are not actually wrong, but I doubt that anyone driving a SR/F would exclusively drive in the city at 50 kph max.

[princec]

Should also probably take a big spoonful of realism and think about the last time you saw a bike with more than 30,000 miles on the clock still being ridden.

Cas

[MVetter]

Should also probably take a big spoonful of realism and think about the last time you saw a bike with more than 30,000 miles on the clock still being ridden.

Cas

Hi there. I just crossed over 31,000 miles on my Energica.

[princec]

You know you're rare though, don't you? I do high mileage too - 5k a year or so these days - but my bikes are gone by 20k miles, leaving impoverished wastrels to pick them up and run them finally into the ground.
Right now there are 2800 Hondas for sale in the UK through Autotrader with a mileage in the ad, and 2500 of them are under 30k miles - the vast majority. After that it just crawls up a few bikes at a time at every 10k increment.

Cas

[Crissa]

Electric bikes can do high miles.  I'm guessing it's high years they're less good at.  Tho mine is going strong.

-Crissa

[Mooseman]

Just in case it sounded as if I meant to say that 160,000 - 192,000 km is a low number: that's not what I meant to say. In fact it's more than I've ever seen on a used motorcycle. My point was that degradation happens gradually.

[princec]

Yes, exactly - people worry a hell of a lot about EV longevity but in the context of motorcycles as a whole it is obviously irrelevant to about 90% of the market. And that's just to 30,000 miles. It's one of those things like fretting over short range that people have a massive hangup about but if they actually analysed their riding they'll actually do 99% of their miles within 30 miles of home, etc.

Cas

[Richard230]

My son-in-law has 125K miles on his (my old) 1986 Honda VFR700FII. My daughter has about the same number of kilometers on her 1981 BMW R65LS. I usually put about 50K miles on my bikes before either trading them in on a new model or giving them to my daughter.