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[NEW2elec]

 I agree the chances of 2 contactors going out at the same time seems unlikely.
I guess I should have said failed and not wielded.

But as the manual says the fail safe is now the open position.

The main bike board and maybe the controller are the only things over the contactor.

It would be nice to have a Delta Q charger to see if that helps by bypassing the onboard charger.

It looks like a dealer visit is in order.  Sorry.

[gt13013]

I have an external charger. I am going to try if it can wake up the bike...

[gt13013]

The external charger does not help.
It seems that the external charger needs that the contactor closes first, in order to work (when everything is working, I initiate the sequence using either the key, or the internal charger, and then the external charger is able to charge).

[DonTom]

The external charger does not help.It seems that the external charger needs that the contactor closes first, in order to work (when everything is working, I initiate the sequence using either the key, or the internal charger, and then the external charger is able to charge).

Yes, either the OBC must be used or the bike's  key must be on to close he contactor to use an external charger.


IIRC, there are several leads that leave the battery for some lower voltage stuff. A tap from the battery turns on the contactor through the ignition switch, IIRC.


This schematic shows the ignition switch wiring. Kinda looks like the key turns on the MBB (Main Bike Board) and the MBB turns on the contactor.


Your problem could be the MMB, which a dealer will probably have to deal with. Perhaps not much you can do other than make sure connections are okay.


-Don-  Reno, NV

[gt13013]

I brought the bike to a dealer yesterday. They have done tests and the conclusion is a defective MBB. I should have the bike repaired by August 7th. Replacing the MBB will be an expensive repair...

I am wondering how the MBB could have definitely failed during this charging night.
I was using a manual timer to stop the charge around 80% SOC.
I have previously noticed that sometimes the timer has some hesitations when cutting the power.
It is possible that at the end the timer put power on and off several times in a short delay, and perhaps the MBB did not appreciate that... It's just a guess, but I probably will not use this timer anymore.

[DonTom]

I brought the bike to a dealer yesterday. They have done tests and the conclusion is a defective MBB. I should have the bike repaired by August 7th. Replacing the MBB will be an expensive repair...

I am wondering how the MBB could have definitely failed during this charging night.
I was using a manual timer to stop the charge around 80% SOC.
I have previously noticed that sometimes the timer has some hesitations when cutting the power.
It is possible that at the end the timer put power on and off several times in a short delay, and perhaps the MBB did not appreciate that... It's just a guess, but I probably will not use this timer anymore.

I once heard about trying to charge when the contactor is open can blow out the MBB, so perhaps that timer can explain it.


IIRC, I heard that from Shadow a while back, perhaps he can tell you more.


I don't try to stop my Zeros from charging to full.  But if I don't expect to be riding them for a while, I try to ride just enough to get the battery around 60% SOC.


Perhaps an expensive lesson was learned about using a cheap timer. I think the odds are very high that caused your MBB to crap out.


Be sure to post here what it cost you.


IRRC, not only is the part is expensive, but it is very difficult to replace and then the entire bike has to be programmed into it. Perhaps the most expensive thing to replace other than the battery (when out of warranty).


-Don-  Reno, NV

[NEW2elec]

While I'm glad they feel they have the problem source, I know that's not a cheap repair.

I would agree to drop the timer.  Some of the big EE guys have said those just aren't able to handle the steady amp pull that the bikes make.

I remember some guys had to replace their kickstand safety switch after it got damaged to failed.  They gave a big warning not to short the wires if someone was going to replace the switch themselves as doing so would fry the MBB.

Hope you get it back soon enough to enjoy more summer and fall riding.

[gt13013]

The dealer told me that the  repair should cost 2062 € (i.e. $ 2433 at the current change), and should take 3 hours of work.
Do you think that the commissioning will be necessarily done at this occasion?

If trying to charge while the bike is not "ready" can destroy the bike, Zero should correct the problem and add some protection.
It seems somewhat related with this : https://zeromanual.com/wiki/Unofficial_Service_Manual#Precharge
My bike had its original firmware, but after this repair it will now get an updated firmware. I would be happy to know if the new firmware has these protections added !

The timer by itself is not defective. And it is cutting only a 3 Amps current, so it is not a lot !

[DonTom]

The dealer told me that the  repair should cost 2062 € (i.e. $ 2433 at the current change), and should take 3 hours of work.
Do you think that the commissioning will be necessarily done at this occasion?

If trying to charge while the bike is not "ready" can destroy the bike, Zero should correct the problem and add some protection.
It seems somewhat related with this : https://zeromanual.com/wiki/Unofficial_Service_Manual#Precharge
My bike had its original firmware, but after this repair it will now get an updated firmware. I would be happy to know if the new firmware has these protections added !

The timer by itself is not defective. And it is cutting only a 3 Amps current, so it is not a lot !

A few amps shutting off and on fast is asking for problems, IMO.


The commissioning, I would think would be done at the controller to align up with the motor.  However, perhaps the controller  does get it's info from the  MBB. I really do not know. Your dealer will know and if you find out, please post the info here.


Your cost is about what I  expect for a new MBB.


-Don- 

[Crissa]

Many timers are listed at more watts than they can take with a resistive load.  Like, a 15a one actually only being able to carry 7.5a.

But you can totally make one capable enough.  Just make sure it's designed for that resistive load and has a decent warranty

-Crissa

[Curt]

I've been leery of something going wrong ever since buying my '16 FX, so I'm always careful with it. Careful to:

- Plug in quickly and make sure the plug is fully seated before the contactor clicks
- Treat the plug with WD-40 periodically
- Don't unplug until charging is complete and no current is flowing
- Never switch the key or the power source more than once in quick succession

Even so, and even though it draws only 650W (5.5A), the charging inlet gets quite hot to the touch.

I know it's just a matter of time before something goes -- most likely the OBC. There have already been three times that I plugged in to charge, then came back later only to find the whole display flashing. So far, those times have magically resolved themselves.

[Crissa]

An FX doesn't draw that much current.  You could always just use a power switch designed for the voltage and load, which is what I did.

No mucking about with worrying I'm going to fobble the plug, I just plug it in, then activate the power.

-Crissa

[Curt]

I had mine on a 1500W Alexa-compatible smart plug, but ended up never using it so I repurposed it for something else.

[gt13013]

I got the bike back yesterday.
Finally they have replaced the controler.
They had to do the commissioning after this replacement.

During the operation, 2300 kms have been added to the ODO !!! Probably an error in the initialization of the new system.

And the bike passed from
   Firmware rev.      47
   Board rev.         3
   Model              FXS
   Initial date       Apr 11 2016 13:57:48
to
   Firmware rev.      56
   Board rev.         3
   Model              FXS
   Initial date       Sep 10 2019 10:56:47

[Crissa]

How do you add 2300km to the ODO? O-o

-Crissa