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[Richard230]

With the magic charging issue, along with cannot charge when hot, along with the poor range when cold and all the other hassles with electric bikes during a trip, I think this guy has it right.


Makes me wonder why we like electric motorcycles. Do we enjoy all these hassles compared to ICE bikes or what?


-Don-  Reno, NV

Well, ICE vehicles have had about 120 years to work their bugs out. 

[DonTom]

Well, ICE vehicles have had about 120 years to work their bugs out. 

First EV was designed in around 1832, that is 190 years to work the bugs out of EVs.


Yeah, EVs were here well before ICE vehicles.



-Don-  Reno, NV

[Crissa]

Sounds like you're describing different things.

See starting  around 1430.

Yes, sounds like you're describing different things.  Next time, don't reply to me.

SoC is a synthetic function result, and so shifts around as the cells rest.  So some variance is normal.  That video shows a bug from a specific firmware version, which is not normal.

-Crissa

[NervEasy]

As a follow up to my previous post:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/zmcowners/permalink/4087851844617326/

Yesterday morning I picked up my bike from the dealer. He called me before to tell me it was fixed.

At this point I can only write down what my dealer said has happened.

I showed my dealer how to get a pack capacity readout from the bike with their tools. He did the same for an SR/S he had on the showroom floor. My bike was 85Ah and the showroom model was 112Ah. He send these screenshots to Zero EU HQ.

They said they are nothing with these numbers. They didn’t need them it seems.

Zero asked my dealer to remove the front plate of the battery so he could access the BMS board.

Zero then flashed a firmware on the board that had more calculations per second than the standard firmware. This so they would have more info from a testride. After this flash the estimated range had already increased significantly.

The dealer then went for a testride (highway/city).
The range and SoC where already a lot beter afterwards.

Zero then flashed the normal software back onto the BMS. The dealer then went on another testride and the range and SoC where still good.

Now I have the bike and I have already ridden 250 km.
SoC drops dramatically slower and the range estimate has never been this good…

It still sometimes magic charges, but a lot less: 1-2%.

Charging is also back to normal. Times are ok again and it tapers 5-10 minutes when at 100% before shutting down.

I hope this will stay this way as it seems a completely different bike.

The replacements for the damaged part have not yet arrived so that will be for a later date.

I asked my dealer via e-mail if Zero has disclosed a reason for the effed up behavior my bike was exhibiting but haven’t heard back yet.

[TNCreator]

thats nice to read. the 1-2% adjustment is what I see on my 2018 SR with a very healthy pack so I wouldnt be too bothered.

did you have to pay anything in this adventure ?

[NervEasy]

I haven’t had to pay anything to ZERO at the moment. I have however paid a lot of gas in the meantime and also a lot of things (brake pads, rotors, brakecleaner, etc) that I hope would have fixed some issues. And My swingarm damage cannot be repaired says my dealer, only the passenger grip will be replaced (it is taking it’s sweet time though).

[Crissa]

1-2% isn't magic, it's normal.  SoC isn't some hard calculation, it's an estimate.  The battery's temperature and recent draw will affect measurements and make it hard for the bike to tell.

But it sounds like I said, they cleared out some software variable that wasn't getting flushed and was convincing your bike was less capable than it should have been.

-Crissa

[Richard230]

With my 2014 S Zero I would sometimes see a 1 or 2% drop in SOC after coming to a stop, turning off the ignition switch and then turning it back on. However the SOC meter of my 2018 S is very stable and does not exhibit any change, either up or down, after stopping and then restarting. 

[NervEasy]

I wanted to give an update to my 2 previous posts:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/zmcowners/permalink/4109325739136603/

https://www.facebook.com/groups/zmcowners/permalink/4087851844617326/

Two weeks later…

Range still seems to be ok but my motorcycle now only charges to 99% or 98%.

This started about 6-7 days ago, I then had my motorcycle for about 1 week since I got it back from the dealer. The first week was trouble free. The second week I experienced this weird charge behavior about 1 time every 3 charges. Now it no longer charges to 100% every charge.

I have alerted my dealer and he said he has seen this behavior before but will ask Zero.

I have again asked my dealer if Zero has given a reason for the first problems I have experienced. As maybe these are related. I have asked this question 3 times now but the dealer never seems to answer this.

…

[DonTom]

Range still seems to be ok but my motorcycle now only charges to 99% or 98%.

Meaningless, if you do not measure the battery voltage (but I have no idea how to do that on a SR/S).


You will probably find that 98% is really  100% SOC displaying as 98%.


I am not sure if this would work, but I would try riding the bike to as close to 0% SOC as your comfortable with and then do a full charge.


That could help recalibrate your SOC. 


If the battery measures low at that 98% SOC, then you have a charger that is below spec.


I kinda think charging too often when well above 50% SOC can cause it to get out of calibration, but I cannot say I am sure about such. I used to see it (98 or 99% SOC at full charge)  happen on my DS and SR once in a great while (not often) but I have not seen it at all since I now do not charge it at as high as SOCs as I used to.


-Don-  Reno, NV

[NervEasy]

It's not really meaningless?

It is a bit of an indication the bike has no clue what the capacity or state of it's battery is.
It has done it 4 times in a row over 2 days now, the 5th time it went to 100% and kept charging at a reaaaally low rate for about 45min. so a charge that was supposed to take 45min now took 1h and 30 min.

Thing is that I was using exactly the same as the week before it. I ride it every day so this sudden change from what I am used to seeing while charging  is a bit strange. And I have been like a hawk on it, watching it closely last 2 weeks as I haven't gotten a reason it behaved strangely from Zero in the first place, so for me it's not really fixed until I know that and Zero acted accordingly.

[Crissa]

Charging longer is usually cell balancing.

-Crissa

[shayan]

I wanted to give an update to my 2 previous posts:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/zmcowners/permalink/4109325739136603/

https://www.facebook.com/groups/zmcowners/permalink/4087851844617326/

Two weeks later…

Range still seems to be ok but my motorcycle now only charges to 99% or 98%.

This started about 6-7 days ago, I then had my motorcycle for about 1 week since I got it back from the dealer. The first week was trouble free. The second week I experienced this weird charge behavior about 1 time every 3 charges. Now it no longer charges to 100% every charge.

I have alerted my dealer and he said he has seen this behavior before but will ask Zero.

I have again asked my dealer if Zero has given a reason for the first problems I have experienced. As maybe these are related. I have asked this question 3 times now but the dealer never seems to answer this.

…

Are you sure your charge target is disabled? If it isn't, then it's set to 95% by default and after reaching that target it continues to charge until 98-99% as it balances the cells. Once it's done the bike will shut off and the SoC gets back to 95% in sometime. Agreed that the SoC should not show more than 95% at any point in time even if it's balancing the cells, but that's how it is. Note that when charge target is enabled it will never reach a 100% even after balancing the cells.

[NervEasy]

Jup checked multiple times. No Charge Target set or enabled.

Yesterday I did another test. Drove to 64% SoC, Plugged in at a 6KW station. Started charging. It showed 45min charging which is perfectly possible on a 6KW station.

It charged fine to 90% then it started doing the up down routine with the current (going down to 2A and up to a random amount every 20sec). It did reach 100% this time (was happy) but it charged for a good half hour on 100% at around 2A... So a charge stop that should have taken around 45min took a bit longer than 1hour and 30 min.

So yeah... I'll see what it does when I get home from work today.

[NervEasy]

So another update to the saga:

Last week my bikes charging became more and more erratic. It didn’t charge to 100% and it took reaaally long to get at 98 or 99% and then stop. As in a charge that should have taken 45min took 1h 35min and another time a charge that should have taken 1h took over 2h.

I relayed al this information to my dealer and 2 days later to my surprise the dealer said Zero offered me a replacement battery. No analysis needed this time it seems just my e-mail with the problems was enough.

So before agreeing I asked some questions:

- What is the warranty of a replacement pack?
- Will this pack have the fix for the error 43 that had plagued my bike before?
- Will the replacement take place at my dealer or does my bike need to go to Holland again?
- What is the delivery period and installation time for the pack.

Some days passed since asking these questions and my battery behavior is going donw the drain fast. I rode it to 0% with appalling range. Started charging and the bike just stopped charging at 63%, like it was finished. It shut down the LCD and everything. After a half an hour I could restart the charging and it was able to charge to 100% then. 4 hours later I key the bine on and the SoC shows 91%…

So I again relay this to my dealer. And he has some answers for my questions.

- The warranty will be the same as on the original bike so I don’t lose and don’t gain any warranty period.
- No answer yet if the pack will have the error 43 fix.
- Replacement will take place at the dealer (so hopefully less damaged bike this time…)
- No info on delivery time yet but the bike will need to go in on a Saturday and stay at the dealers until the next Thursday. So it seems like a big job.

At the moment I am very apprehensive about the whole deal and really bummed my bike is still not ok. I’m starting to hate riding it purely because I can never trust it.
Since I have purchased it at the end of March (this year) I had maybe 2 or 3 weeks where the bike performed as advertised. The other time it definitely did not… the list of problems is:

- 12v battery issues (not fixed at the moment)
- Warped discs in front (fixed)
- No cellular connection (fixed but still bugged)
- Error 43 isolation fault (fixed I hope, haven’t ridden in a big downpour since)
- Bike needed to go to Holland (Zero EU HQ) to fix the problems stated above. Should have taken 2 weeks max. Took 1 month and a week due to very bad communication between dealer and Zero HQ.
- Zero damaged my swingarm paint during that time. Cannot be fixed, I have used some touch up paint but still noticeable.
- Zero then also forgot to tighten the seatplastic bolts.
- Zero scratched my rear tire plastic fender.
- Zero used different (wrong) and differently colored bolts when reattaching my panier rack.
- Zero damaged my right rear passenger handgrip. They said they would send a new one. The one they send was damaged worse in shipping due to bad packaging. One month later I haven’t received a new part. Still waiting.
- First problems with range and crazy SoC jumps start when I pick the bike back up. But no weird charging the . This is magically fixed after being a week at the dealer and Zero remote analysis. (I suspect just a BMS reset happened.
- 2 weeks later the same battery problems are coming back but very weird and inconsistent charging is also joining the party.

So yeah, I can’t recommend Zero at this point. The only time they went out of their way was when they offered a replacement bike when mine went to Holland. But that is about it. When I call them I either get someone that says they do not talk or help direct customers or someone that is friendly but can’t do very much. So I stopped calling them.