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[NervEasy]

So, I would like to pen down my not so stellar experiences with my second Zero motorcycle, a 2020 Zero SR/S premium with LED blinkers, top box and side boxes.

At the end of march this year I traded in my 2019 Zero S (with 26000kms) for a showroom SR/S. I hadn’t had any major issues with my S and the dealer always went one step beyond to help when something had to be done.

The SR/S had 2200km on the clock and 90% of those km where from the dealer himself as he used the bike to commute. The condition was flawless and I had several testrides.

The first few days of ownership however where strange. The dealer said prior to me collecting the bike he performed the firmware upgrade to V19.
I had really (really) low range comparing to my S. Some trips where my S would lose 10% soc the SR/S would lose 17-22%. Also the “magic charging issue was very (!) present.
I tried a bunch of things but found that the only thing having an impact was draining the bike to 0% and recharging it fully, several times. This would bring the range up to an acceptable standard. Still not like my S but acceptable. The magic charging was also manageable with 2-4% recharge between stops.

The cellular connectivity was also not working and I could not activate it on the bike. I notified my dealer and he said Zero would need to connect to the bike to fix this. I asked for an appointment to do this.

As it was still cold in the mornings in April I sometimes experienced a 12V error on startup. The bike would hesitate on key-on and shut off, then restart automatically and throw the 12 V error. I notified my dealer and asked for a fix. I deduced this problem would only occur when the temperature outside was lower than 7degrees C and when my heated grips where on.

So i rode for about 3-4 weeks waiting for an appointment with Zero (seemed to be really difficult to plan that…) when suddenly the front brakes rapidly deteriorated. They started pulsing heavily when used. At this moment I had 3000km of my own on the bike. I notified my dealer and asked for a fix.

A week later I got the dreaded 43 error when riding through rain. I notified my dealer and two days later he called me back saying Zero wants to pick up my bike and ship it to the Zero HQ in Holland (I live in Belgium). I was a bit taken aback by this but after the dealer explained to me that it would take 1 to 2 weeks tops and all my issues would be resolved, and a loaner bike would be arranged I said ok.

So one week passes, two weeks pass, three weeks pass… I called Zero and asked what was happening with my bike. There seemed to be several miscommunications. It took a lot of calling with my dealer and Zero HQ to finally get them to fix my bike and send it back after one month and a week.

When i got there to collect my bike I noticed a lot of scratches on the swingarm, mismatched bolts, 5 loose bolts on the seat plastics, torn battery sleeve, big scratch on the right passenger handhold and some more minor sloppy things. Also the dealer said they didn’t do anything with the 12 V battery despite the stored errors as they didn’t experience any problems. Yeah duh… only when it was cold I had problems and my bike had been gone during a major heatwave.

The brakes, cellular connection and error 43 seemed fixed though.

So despite mentioning the cosmetic damage to my dealer I started riding my new bike again.

Only to notice the dreaded magic charging and shitty range where back, with a vengeance. No problem, I thought I can fix this with going to 0% and charging back up. But no dice, it had the opposite effect. Worse range, more magic charging. I tried draining and charging another 2 times but no luck.

I downloaded mbb and bms log with the app and send them to the dealer and notifying him of my battery problems. 2 days later he calls me and ge said that Zero can’t do anything the these logs (?). They need to be connected to the bike to make any assessment. He also said that my bike received a firmware update when it was at their HQ and that the range and soc needed to be calibrated. I should run the bike to 0% and recharge it he said. That’s when I told him my bike was at V19 (latedt firmware) since I bought it and I already tried the 0% trick multiple times… So I have no clue how they can update a fully up to date bike.

I have now brought the bike to the dealer again (one week since it came back from Holland) so Zero can connect to it next week during businesses hours. I will update below.

The dealer tried reupdating V19 (third time now…) saying it maybe could fix things, it didn’t. I showed him how to get a Pack Capacity reading using the Zero software by using the bms and bms interface commands.

My pack capacity has been hovering arround 85 Ah since I got it back. When the bike left for holland it was at 104Ah.

Is it me or should Zero be doing a lot more for me at this point?

[MVetter]

There is no *fix* for magic charging until Zero themselves fix it. Your battery should list at 114AH. I'm sorry you're dealing with this, but the issues will never be dealt with until people are loud enough for Zero to hear them.

[DonTom]

I had really (really) low range comparing to my S. Some trips where my S would lose 10% soc the SR/S would lose 17-22%. Also the “magic charging issue was very (!) present.
I tried a bunch of things but found that the only thing having an impact was draining the bike to 0% and recharging it fully, several times. This would bring the range up to an acceptable standard. Still not like my S but acceptable. The magic charging was also manageable with 2-4% recharge between stops.

I assume the deep discharging and recharging had a lot more effect on your SOC calibration than it did your  accrual range. The higher SOC number is only making you feel better, probably not giving you more range.


I don't recall hearing the term "magic charging" before, but I think I have seen it, if it means you shut down the bike at 95% SOC but when you turn it on a half  hour later, with no more charging, it then says 99 or 100% SOC.  Is  that what "magic charging" means?


-Don-  Reno, NV

[NervEasy]

There is no *fix* for magic charging until Zero themselves fix it. Your battery should list at 114AH. I'm sorry you're dealing with this, but the issues will never be dealt with until people are loud enough for Zero to hear them.

I know there is not a fix for it at the moment. But there are definitely gradations of the problem. Some haven’t experienced it, hell the loaner bike did not have it. Before my bike went to the EU HQ it was perfectly usable. 2-4% magic charging is not a hige problem. And if you can improve it by going to 0%, that is at least a way to a useable bike. At the moment i have soc going 10- 19% up and down. That is not exactly useable… As a customer iI don’t know how I can get any louder but continuesly reporting all the problems I’m having (what I’m doing).

[NervEasy]

I had really (really) low range comparing to my S. Some trips where my S would lose 10% soc the SR/S would lose 17-22%. Also the “magic charging issue was very (!) present.
I tried a bunch of things but found that the only thing having an impact was draining the bike to 0% and recharging it fully, several times. This would bring the range up to an acceptable standard. Still not like my S but acceptable. The magic charging was also manageable with 2-4% recharge between stops.

I assume the deep discharging and recharging had a lot more effect on your SOC calibration than it did your  accrual range. The higher SOC number is only making you feel better, probably not giving you more range.


I don't recall hearing the term "magic charging" before, but I think I have seen it, if it means you shut down the bike at 95% SOC but when you turn it on a half  hour later, with no more charging, it then says 99 or 100% SOC.  Is  that what "magic charging" means?


-Don-  Reno, NV

Jup, but with reduced range and soc julps up and down for more than 10%

[MVetter]

I don't recall hearing the term "magic charging" before, but I think I have seen it, if it means you shut down the bike at 95% SOC but when you turn it on a half  hour later, with no more charging, it then says 99 or 100% SOC.  Is  that what "magic charging" means?

It's a term Brandon and I coined last year.

https://youtu.be/CjIXCD2-CdU?t=764

  See video at this precise timestamp.

[DonTom]

Jup, but with reduced range and soc julps up and down for more than 10%

I can understand the SOC % changing while not being charged, but I don't see how that number can effect your actual range.


Your KWH capacity is what it is regardless of what the SOC says.



-Don-  Reno, NV

[princec]

Yes, but the Zero firmware cripples the bike when the reckoned SOC drops below a certain level. Suspect it may also modulate the battery drain at several points of SOC too, as I've noticed definite differences in 20% intervals.

Still have not experienced this on my SR/F yet. However, my front brakes are now fuxx0red, as if badly warped after just 3000 miles - seems to happen to just about every SR/* bike so far. Going to email the dealer on Monday.

Cas

[NervEasy]

Jup, but with reduced range and soc julps up and down for more than 10%

I can understand the SOC % changing while not being charged, but I don't see how that number can effect your actual range.


Your KWH capacity is what it is regardless of what the SOC says.

My bike thinks my pack capacity is 84Ah. So my range and soc plummet very fast. There is indeed a point where the bine goes into limp mode (under 10% soc). But when I shut the bike off for 10 min. It will magicly charge back to 25 % for example. And I can ride with full power again. This will happen several times.

-Don-  Reno, NV

[DonTom]

My bike thinks my pack capacity is 84Ah. So my range and soc plummet very fast. There is indeed a point where the bike goes into limp mode (under 10% soc). But when I shut the bike off for 10 min. It will magically charge back to 25 % for example. And I can ride with full power again. This will happen several times.

IOW, the bike determines where it is by the SOC instead of the battery voltage.


Or does the battery voltage actually rise during those stops?


-Don-  Reno, NV

[NervEasy]

Yes it uses the soc to determine the limp activate point. We do not know what rhe voltage does. This parameter is no longer shown in the app. I suspect it rises from sag. But the bike still thinks the pack is way smaller than it actually is. This also translates in very short charge times on the dash. But the bike than actually sits charging at full rate for about an extra hour when the dash shows 100%. And then without any meaningful balancing suddenly shuts down.

[DonTom]

Yes it uses the soc to determine the limp activate point. We do not know what rhe voltage does. This parameter is no longer shown in the app. I suspect it rises from sag. But the bike still thinks the pack is way smaller than it actually is. This also translates in very short charge times on the dash. But the bike than actually sits charging at full rate for about an extra hour when the dash shows 100%. And then without any meaningful balancing suddenly shuts down.

Is this bug only on the SR/F & SR/S?


I can remember when my DS and SR would "magic charge" on the high end above ~95% SOC when the bikes were new. I would ride about five miles from full charge and stop at a restaurant for breakfast when I was at ~95 SOC when I park. After breakfast, I turn the key on and I was back to 100% SOC.


They both stopped doing that, perhaps because of a new FW update, but I am not sure if that was why.


When my battery was crapping out on my DS, it "magic charged" at the low end, but not at the high end of the SOC.


-Don-  Reno, NV

[MVetter]

Ok Don now imagine your bike showed 0% and refused to move. Then you turned the key off, walked away, and came back 30 minutes later and it showed 35% and would operate.

THAT is what people are experiencing.

[DonTom]

Ok Don now imagine your bike showed 0% and refused to move. Then you turned the key off, walked away, and came back 30 minutes later and it showed 35% and would operate.

THAT is what people are experiencing.

Yeah, I understand. That sounds like a rather serious bug. Does it happen on all models of the Zeros or only on the SR/F & SR/S?


FWIW, I had that happen on my DS when the battery was crapping out. However, I do not recall ever letting my charge get that low with good batteries. I get "range anxiety" very easily and normally recharge at 40% or so where possible.


So perhaps it does happen on all Zeros, it's just that I have only discharged my battery enough to see such, when it was crapping out.


-Don-  Reno, NV

[Crissa]

Battery voltage can fluctuate over time.  That's why SoC is a computed stat.

A few percent is normal; thirty is a miscalculation.

-Crissa