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[DonTom]

Or to rephrase. It adds 10%, 'only' in the city, nearly none while cruising.
While 10% in the city is certainly nice, it is exactly the place where most people have least worries about range.

Or to rephrase even better:   Regen is great then you MUST slow down. Such as coming up to a red light or stop sign. Then, you want as much regen as possible.


Otherwise, the misuse of having too much regen can waste a lot more energy than it gains, such as having too much regen to go down hill when you have to go uphill again at the bottom. Then it's better to coast down the hill, or just stay at a steady speed.


As a general rule, use the most regen at slower speeds.   Use very little or none at all at higher speeds. That's for deceleration regen.


For braking regen, I see no reason to NOT keep it at 100% at all times. When you want to use the brakes, it means you must want to slow down or stop regardless of speed.


-Don-  Reno, NV

[enaef]

I thought Stilfserjoch was in Italy.
[...]
The physics say that you'll always use lot more energy going up the hill than you can possibly get by going down.

You are right, Stilfserjoch is in Italy. (l was wondering, if someone would comment on that.) However: Going downhill, after the first sharp turns you can turn right to the Umbrail pass, which is in Switzerland. Stilfserjoch itself is ~100m away from the Swiss boarder.

Ofcourse I know that physical law. I certainly do not drive up a hill IN ORDER TO gain energy by going downhill afterwards. But if I drove up the hill for fun purposes, I'd be silly not to use regen downhill.
As DonTom wrote: "Regen is great when you MUST slow down."
And riding down from the Stilfserjoch to Santa Maria you definitively MUST slow down (1640m decrease / 264m ascent on 16.8 km road). If I'm correct that's nearly a 10% steep gradient on 16 km ...

[Crissa]

Because too much braking regen skips the fine control of friction brakes and abs, Don.  Or you're going down a hill and pacing traffic.

That regen does little for freeway driving is just a dumb statement.  You'd rather regen than brakes on the freeway anyhow.

-Crissa

[princec]

Regen would be far more useful if there was a bit of room for some supercaps to actually store all the energy instead of just dumping most of it. Then it could be bled back into the battery at a reasonable rate.

Cas

[stevenh]

Or to rephrase. It adds 10%, 'only' in the city, nearly none while cruising.
While 10% in the city is certainly nice, it is exactly the place where most people have least worries about range.

Or to rephrase even better:   Regen is great then you MUST slow down. Such as coming up to a red light or stop sign. Then, you want as much regen as possible.


Otherwise, the misuse of having too much regen can waste a lot more energy than it gains, such as having too much regen to go down hill when you have to go uphill again at the bottom. Then it's better to coast down the hill, or just stay at a steady speed.


As a general rule, use the most regen at slower speeds.   Use very little or none at all at higher speeds. That's for deceleration regen.


For braking regen, I see no reason to NOT keep it at 100% at all times. When you want to use the brakes, it means you must want to slow down or stop regardless of speed.


-Don-  Reno, NV

Regen on the SR/F, SR/S is progressive.  You control the amount on deceleration based on the throttle position.  To me this is ideal, you use what you need.  100% is just the maximum applied, you don't need to apply it.  It just depends on how much you roll off the throttle.  It seems like many people are still confusing regen on the new bikes with the old ones (where regen was not progressive).  The only time I use my friction breaks is in a fast/panic stop, or coming to a full stop at a light, and I can "coast" by just controlling throttle position.

Steve

[princec]

It'd be nice if the regen throttle position and curves could be adjusted with the app. I still don't see a sane use case for turning on regen when the brakes are applied though. Braking is like, one of the most finely controlled and critical things you can do - the last thing you want is the rear to suddenly jam on the anchors at the slightest touch of brake application. For one thing it'll fuck with trail braking.

(If you don't know what trail braking is yet - hie thee to Youtube and find out, quickly, before you discover the hard way about what happens if you do as you've been taught by the official instructors. Seriously this will one day save your life)

Cas

[stevenh]

It'd be nice if the regen throttle position and curves could be adjusted with the app. I still don't see a sane use case for turning on regen when the brakes are applied though. Braking is like, one of the most finely controlled and critical things you can do - the last thing you want is the rear to suddenly jam on the anchors at the slightest touch of brake application. For one thing it'll fuck with trail braking.

(If you don't know what trail braking is yet - hie thee to Youtube and find out, quickly, before you discover the hard way about what happens if you do as you've been taught by the official instructors. Seriously this will one day save your life)

Cas

You get some control with the percentage (really max regen applied fully off throttle), but it would be really nice to be able to "set the curve", I'd like a little wider zero regen zone coming off throttle before regen starts to be applied.  It is also not "smooth" it seems that Zero applies different levels in steps based on the throttle position, not really a linear curve.

Steve

[T.S. Zarathustra]

"Good" regen would be smoothly adjusted by throttle position, if using the throttle to slow down, or brake force if using the brakes to slow down, or both. A big trouble is that regen works on the rear tire. Brakes of course, work on front and/or rear.
I am a smooth rider. The brake pads on my ICE bikes last over 20000 km. My fuel consumption is within 10% of manufacturers specs. For me a bike is not a toy to mistreat, but investment that needs to be treated with respect. Regen is useless for my riding style. Over weight, ham-fisted, always wheelying rider, that never leaves the city will get much more use of possible regen.
The original poster stated "I use a custom profile with full regen to extend range as much as possible and to reduce brake wear." It was to that comment that I originally replied of regen being practically useless.

[Mooseman]

The original poster stated "I use a custom profile with full regen to extend range as much as possible and to reduce brake wear." It was to that comment that I originally replied of regen being practically useless.

Just to clarify: The max regen is set to 100%. It doesn't mean I usually go fast so I can use the full regen in order to extend my range. Regen always happens at questionable efficiency, so it's better not to waste energy to begin with. Most of the time when a speed limit changes fron let's say 80 kph to 60 kph I will close the throttle only far enough to get slowed down by air drag without actually using regen.
Still, if I have to slow down faster I prefer to do it through regen rather than friction brakes. I do agree though that this helps with range less than going just a bit slower. Regen is definitely not a huge range extender.

[Richtea]

Re: parking brake - you could try one of these:
http://www.ifam.es/en/product/rpm-motorcycle-lock/



As a bonus, it's more of a deterrent than a disc lock, and you can't forget it.

[Mooseman]

While all the offered solutions seem to work, I feel like this is something that should be addressed by the manufacturer and not by the end user. I shouldn't have to buy a pair of crutches just to make up for their shortcomings. This is supposed to be a high-tech bike and they can't even come up with a solution for a usable parking brake? Zero Motorcycles has been around for many years now and I refuse to believe that none of their engineers has ever noticed that there is some basic functionality missing.

I do appreciate all of the offered workarounds, though. I do have a velcro in my pocket now. Still a disgrace but at least it works.

[Richard230]

My recollection is that a number of ICE scooters with a variable belt drive have a brake lock that is automatically activated when the side stand is deployed. That seems like a good idea to me.

[princec]

Not automatically deployed, there's a parking brake lever on them (I've owned two).

Cas